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Bear Mountain insolvency


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#41 spanky123

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 02:04 PM

^ I'm sorry, perhaps I am ill informed. Help me out please.


It is interesting to see the CRA take the position that they should be paid ahead of every other secured creditor. I was aware they unpaid GST/HST were secured, but did not know that it took priority over everything else. If this is a new position the CRA is taking, it may make it harder to restructure companies like this in the future if lendors feel that they may lose their interim financing if amounts are owing to the Government.

It also sends a signal in my opinion that the Government feels as though there may not be enough resources to cover the secured creditors fully. If that is the case and lendors wind up losing money at BM, that may make it harder on all developers in town.

#42 Sparky

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 06:46 PM

Holden, empty your PM mailbox and I will explain.

#43 LJ

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 06:56 PM

It also sends a signal in my opinion that the Government feels as though there may not be enough resources to cover the secured creditors fully. If that is the case and lendors wind up losing money at BM, that may make it harder on all developers in town.


Only a few of the major secured creditors will receive any substantial amount of money. The rest will get $500 apiece. The unsecured creditors will get $250.
Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#44 concorde

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 08:38 PM

It is interesting to see the CRA take the position that they should be paid ahead of every other secured creditor. I was aware they unpaid GST/HST were secured, but did not know that it took priority over everything else. If this is a new position the CRA is taking, it may make it harder to restructure companies like this in the future if lendors feel that they may lose their interim financing if amounts are owing to the Government.

It also sends a signal in my opinion that the Government feels as though there may not be enough resources to cover the secured creditors fully. If that is the case and lendors wind up losing money at BM, that may make it harder on all developers in town.


Thats the way it works, CRA has "super priority" overall all creditors, secured or not. On top of that they will also go after the directors under personal directors liability

#45 jklymak

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 08:57 PM

Makes sense to me. You extend credit to someone who is deadbeat on their taxes, too bad.

#46 Zoe

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 06:17 AM

^ You are happy now...right?

I'm always happy. :) But this Bear Mountain stuff is soooo predictable. We've been predicting their downfall for years, and it turns out we were right all along. I'll keep reporting on it, but I doubt there will be a lot of surprises. I'm taking bets on what happens next.

#47 Sparky

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 07:49 AM

^ Did the judge hand down his verdict yet re Langford?

#48 Zoe

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 11:48 AM

No, she hasn't. Should be any time now.

#49 LJ

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 08:02 PM

^ You are happy now...right?

I'm always happy. :) But this Bear Mountain stuff is soooo predictable. We've been predicting their downfall for years, and it turns out we were right all along. I'll keep reporting on it, but I doubt there will be a lot of surprises. I'm taking bets on what happens next.


Predicting or hoping for?

What are you betting? I might like to take some of that action.
Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#50 Zoe

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 12:01 PM

What are you betting? I might like to take some of that action.


OK! Anyone want a bet that Les bJola is wrong and the resort will start making money by the end of 2011? I think he's right, because he has teh inside information and there are all those lawsuits and so on. Plus, it seems like the place is under kind of a curse, maybe because of destroying the native caves.

Predicting or hoping for?


What I HOPE is that people come to their senses and recosnider what they're doing. I HOPE there can be some kind of mutual agreement to make amends. I HOPE the caves can be restored and the garry oaks replanted and the orange sludge remediated, and some respect shown for the environment and the community. That would be the best outcome. I don't have a lot of faith in human nature though.

I never liked those Greek morality plays where people got turned to stone or burned up because they flew close to the sun. I like the ones where the bad guys redeem themselves and everyone lives happily ever after.

#51 Maverick

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 03:54 PM

I never liked those Greek morality plays where people got turned to stone or burned up because they flew close to the sun. I like the ones where the bad guys redeem themselves and everyone lives happily ever after.


That sounds like the soft side of you coming out Zoe.

#52 Maverick

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 04:13 PM

How do you restore a cave?
The only thing I saw up there was a hole in the ground in some gravel bed that had been eroded by surface water runoff to a point where you could stand in the hole and call it a cave,at one point there was some old stumps and tires that kids had thrown into the hole,but a cave,I hardly think so.That orange sludge can be found in a lot of different places if you look around the area in the wet season,even in ditches outside of peoples homes where some standing water does not get a chance to move much. Can we not find better trees to plant than Garry Oaks,they take so long to grow and besides they don`t look that nice and leave a mess when all the leaves fall off. One more thing where exactly was this native cave that was destroyed?

#53 spanky123

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 06:45 PM

How do you restore a cave?


https://www.mightyputty.com/flare/next

#54 CharlieFoxtrot

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 03:46 PM

One more thing where exactly was this native cave that was destroyed?


Here's a map.

#55 Maverick

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 04:00 PM

Is that not the one that had a grate replaced on the entrance of it for liability reasons by the city of Langford? I would hardly call that a native cave.

#56 Zoe

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 09:10 PM

Aboriginal leaders want cave restored

#57 Zoe

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 09:24 PM

How quickly they forget, eh? :rolleyes:

Let's check the media archive.

5/25/2006 "First Nations bands threaten blockade of Bear Mountain," Times Colonist, Rob Shaw

11/16/06 "Sacred cave destroyed," Times Colonist, Louise Dickson and Bill Cleverley, with files from Jeff Rud

11/16/06 "Destroying cave only way to gather information," Times Colonist, Jeff Rud

11/17/06 "De Jong desperately trying to head off trouble between natives and developer," Vancouver Sun, Vaughn Palmer

11/17/06 "Bureaucratic 'logic,' political hypocrisy doom sacred sites," Vancouver Sun, Stephen Hume

11/17/06 "Aboriginal leaders want cave restored," Times Colonist, Louise Dickson

11/18/06 "Truce reached on native cave," Times Colonist, Louise Dickson, with files from Richard Watts

11/22/06 "Cave Calamity," Monday Magazine, Briony Penn

11/29/06 "Cave worth restoring: scientist," Goldstream Gazette, Ted Hill

12/2/06 "Developers court natives with casino," Times Colonist, Louise Dickson, with files from Lindsay Kines

12/3/06 "Langford pushes for funding to head off artifact disputes," Times Colonist, Cindy E. Harnett, with file from Judith Lavoie

12/5/06 "Casino Shouldn't be Traded for Cave," Times Colonist, Staff

12/5/06 "Nothing Sacred Found in a Casino," Times Colonist, Jocelyn Skrlac

12/5/06 "Don't Trade Cave for Casino," Times Colonist, Olive Clapp

12/6/06 "First Nations on southern Vancouver Island will lose a sacred cave," Monday Magazine, Andrew MacLeod

12/14/06 “Cave issue tests Songhees unity,” Times Colonist

12/16/06 "Aboriginal leaders call resort talks flawed," Times Colonist, Louise Dickson

12/20/06 "Tsartlip issue stern warning on destruction of sacred sites," Times Colonist, Sandra McCulloch

12/20/06 "Tsartlip veto Skirt Mtn. cave deal," Goldstream Gazette, Edward Hill

#58 LJ

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:52 PM

The caves are old drill holes from copper exploration in the first part of the 20th century. There are hundreds of them all over Skirt mountain.

The orange runoff is perfectly natural and occurs from time to time in lots of places, it had nothing to do with being a byproduct of construction.

The Indians can call anything they want sacred, that doesn't make it so.

And just to cheer you up Zoe, rumour alert, LB has lined up some investors and will be buying back into the project in the next few weeks.
Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#59 Zoe

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:23 PM

^ Oh, that's a relief. I'll just go tell the native folks know that their history of the area for the past thousand years is wrong.

So, how much are you putting on Bear Mountain's profitability in the sixteen months? I'll give 2 to 1 odds - I think that's pretty generous, eh?

#60 AnonAnnie2

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 07:53 AM

The caves are old drill holes from copper exploration in the first part of the 20th century. There are hundreds of them all over Skirt mountain.

The orange runoff is perfectly natural and occurs from time to time in lots of places, it had nothing to do with being a byproduct of construction.

The Indians can call anything they want sacred, that doesn't make it so.

And just to cheer you up Zoe, rumour alert, LB has lined up some investors and will be buying back into the project in the next few weeks.


LJ - the Caucasians can call anything they want not sacred, that doesn't make it so.

Anyone have the name of the Victoria area archaeologists who completed the reports on these areas - who presumably said these caves were not sacred - I've not seen their names published.

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