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2010 Victoria Municipal By-election


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#21 Bingo

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 08:56 PM

I do think that once/if he is in a council seat, he ought to excuse himself from discussions and votes about other specific business proposals for the harbour.


I'm not sure if a comparison could be made to present council members who didn't run on replacing the Blue Bridge, but once elected are lobbying for a new bridge with the blessings of the cycling community. I don't think they excused themselves from discussions.

#22 Bernard

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 09:00 AM

I'm not sure if a comparison could be made to present council members who didn't run on replacing the Blue Bridge, but once elected are lobbying for a new bridge with the blessings of the cycling community. I don't think they excused themselves from discussions.


The issue is conflict of interest - this means there is a potential for financial benefit for the person.

The issue of harbour and Barry Hobbis becomes a definite issue if it could be seen to benefit Harbour Ferries. This means if we were on council, he would be hard pressed to make any decisions about the marina and not be in conflict

#23 tedward

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 09:16 AM

What if they work in Victoria or run a business in the City? What if the arbitrary municipal boundaries split their neighbourhood?


Then they should work harder to achieve amalgamation and run for office in the jurisdiction in which they reside.

I work in Saanich but I do not get a vote there so the idea that somehow it works the other way around is offensive.

#24 aastra

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 11:25 AM

Because the city proper is called "Victoria", that means each and every Victorian (all 350,000 of them) should have a say in what happens there.

But because Saanich is called "Saanich", that means only Saanichers should have a say in what happens there. Same for the other municipalities.

Makes perfect sense.*

*not really

#25 Barra

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 04:32 PM

The issue is conflict of interest - this means there is a potential for financial benefit for the person.

The issue of harbour and Barry Hobbis becomes a definite issue if it could be seen to benefit Harbour Ferries. This means if we were on council, he would be hard pressed to make any decisions about the marina and not be in conflict


Its an interesting question for Barry and he might be advised to get a legal opinion on this.

Generally, conflict of interest only comes up if there is a direct financial interest. So, if someone was asking council for permission to set up another harbour tour business, it might be a conflict of interest. But a whale watching company asking for permission would not, in my mind, present a conflict of interest. The proposed marina, even if it goes ahead, would not negatively impact the Harbour Ferries business. There are a lot of things that go on in the harbour - should be be required to be silent on all of them? The Blue Bridge refurbishment could impact harbour traffic does that mean he has to stay silent on that?
My take on it is that he operates a business in a certain location - the harbour. Should someone who operates a business in Vic West be silenced (conflict of interest) on every decision related to that neighbourhood?
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#26 Bernard

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 04:42 PM

Its an interesting question for Barry and he might be advised to get a legal opinion on this.

Generally, conflict of interest only comes up if there is a direct financial interest. So, if someone was asking council for permission to set up another harbour tour business, it might be a conflict of interest. But a whale watching company asking for permission would not, in my mind, present a conflict of interest. The proposed marina, even if it goes ahead, would not negatively impact the Harbour Ferries business. There are a lot of things that go on in the harbour - should be be required to be silent on all of them? The Blue Bridge refurbishment could impact harbour traffic does that mean he has to stay silent on that?
My take on it is that he operates a business in a certain location - the harbour. Should someone who operates a business in Vic West be silenced (conflict of interest) on every decision related to that neighbourhood?


I admit I have not paid attention to all the details of people opposed to the marina, but I had thought that Barry Hobbis had said the Marina would cause a problem for the harbour ferries.

Some people can simply not run for council because there are way too many conflicts for them. Every decision that relates to the harbour could very well be ones he will either have a conflict of interest or be perceived to have a conflict of interest. Perception is as relevant as an actual conflict.

In Central Saanich, the Mayor is declaring a conflict on the Vantreight Hill project because he has done business with the Vantreights in the past, they have washed pumpkins for him.

Any decision that could be seen by the public as possibly making the Harbour Ferry business a better one is one he would have to excuse himself from.

#27 mat

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 05:36 PM

Councillors, more than most elected positions, have more potential conflicts of interest as they are often considered to be part-time. Many either are employed, or own a business - and that does create genuine conflicts.

The BC Community Charter spells out Conflict of Interest considerations (Division 6)

There have been situations with other councils where so many asked to be recused, quorum was not achieved - I could imagine that happening with, say, a debate or decision request on business tax, if most councillors owned, or worked for, a local business.

I don't think a new marina, or not, directly impacts Victoria Harbour Ferries. Barry's concern has always been about the safety of the harbour. He can't officially 'resign' from Save Victoria Harbour, even if he wished to, as it is a loose community organization not an official society.

If elected, he would have to resign from the Board of the DVBA

#28 Knot-A-Yacht

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 07:44 PM

The issue is conflict of interest - this means there is a potential for financial benefit for the person.

The issue of harbour and Barry Hobbis becomes a definite issue if it could be seen to benefit Harbour Ferries. This means if we were on council, he would be hard pressed to make any decisions about the marina and not be in conflict


If you were to believe the developer Barry Hobbis would stand to benefit more from increased traffic from the marina and restaurant if the marina did in fact go ahead. However Barry Hobbis has come out strongly against the proposed mega yacht marina because of the potential safety issues, even though it could mean less business for his company.

Becuase his company is the most prolific user of the harbour in terms of movements, I can't think of a better person to be involved in any discussion with respect to the harbour. Just because he is a subject matter expert does not mean he should exclude himself from any discussions or decisions re the harbour. In fact I would argue just the opposite, we need his input and expertise on those decisions.

#29 G-Man

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 08:06 PM

The fact that this discussion is occurring is evidence of a perceived conflict and thus a true conflict.

#30 Bernard

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 08:08 PM

If you were to believe the developer Barry Hobbis would stand to benefit more from increased traffic from the marina and restaurant if the marina did in fact go ahead. However Barry Hobbis has come out strongly against the proposed mega yacht marina because of the potential safety issues, even though it could mean less business for his company.

Becuase his company is the most prolific user of the harbour in terms of movements, I can't think of a better person to be involved in any discussion with respect to the harbour. Just because he is a subject matter expert does not mean he should exclude himself from any discussions or decisions re the harbour. In fact I would argue just the opposite, we need his input and expertise on those decisions.

Actually because he has a business dependent on the harbour, he specifically would be expected to excuse himself from discussions that have to with the harbour because they could have an impact on his business.

About the only decisions he could take part in are ones that have nothing even remotely to do with his business - this means any decision that deals with movement of anything on the water or deals with any dock he uses is something he would be expected to stand aside for. That is how the conflict rules work.

There are local council in smaller towns that occasionally have a problem when the whole council is in conflict on an issue.

#31 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 08:15 AM

If you were to believe the developer Barry Hobbis would stand to benefit more from increased traffic from the marina and restaurant if the marina did in fact go ahead. However Barry Hobbis has come out strongly against the proposed mega yacht marina because of the potential safety issues, even though it could mean less business for his company.

Becuase his company is the most prolific user of the harbour in terms of movements, I can't think of a better person to be involved in any discussion with respect to the harbour. Just because he is a subject matter expert does not mean he should exclude himself from any discussions or decisions re the harbour. In fact I would argue just the opposite, we need his input and expertise on those decisions.


Maybe the marina developer has plans to run his own water shuttle(s) for marina yacht owners, and pick up and drop off other passengers visiting the super-rich too, sort of like how a hotel has its own shuttle bus or even tour rides for guests. That would affect his business. Just a thought.

#32 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 04:34 PM

So what candidate is going to step forward and get us out of the bridge mess?

#33 mat

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 04:44 PM

So what candidate is going to step forward and get us out of the bridge mess?


The problem is any council candidate will only get in AFTER a decision and referendum. It's only if the public vote against a borrowing bylaw that they might make a difference - even then, it's potentially only one more voice for reason.

#34 Bingo

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 04:57 PM

So what candidate is going to step forward and get us out of the bridge mess?


Candidate Barry Hobbis will get us out of a bridge mess if either of the bridges become inoperable in the pending quake. He has a fleet of harbour ferries.

#35 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 04:59 PM

OK. Will a candidate come up with a way out of this bridge mess by coming up with an alternate plan to the two unveiled today, convince us to go to the poll and defeat whatever is on the ballot in November, then after winning, take the reins and lead us to forward with a plan that does not cost each of us $1000? If one can do that, he or she has my vote. A candidate that takes no side in the referendum will certaINLY NOT get my vote.

#36 mat

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 06:38 PM

A candidate that takes no side in the referendum will certaINLY NOT get my vote.


With the by-election tied to the bridge referendum it will be almost impossible for any candidate to ignore the issue. I guess one could, but that would lack credibility.

City Council will set its course for the summer public engagement as of this Thursday. How much borrowing the voters feel can be tolerated, in light of many other issues, might come to light. We shall see... :)

#37 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 06:53 PM

With the by-election tied to the bridge referendum it will be almost impossible for any candidate to ignore the issue. I guess one could, but that would lack credibility.

City Council will set its course for the summer public engagement as of this Thursday. How much borrowing the voters feel can be tolerated, in light of many other issues, might come to light. We shall see... :)


I don't even understand what they are engaging us in. Nobody is going to say spend $103M to keep the current bridge. But I also believe we will say no to borrowing $65M+ to get a new one. I need someone to step forward with the third option - Necessary repairs to the existing bridge and no more. No third bridge, no road realignment, no 8.5-quake fix, no nothin' more than welding up what's falling apart on the existing bridge and a few new motors. I cannot believe that the whole thing is all falling apart at once. That defies reason.

#38 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 08:16 PM

I don't even understand what they are engaging us in.


That's a really good point.
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#39 Bingo

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 10:01 PM

That's a really good point.


They want input from the public, so here is mine.



*

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#40 piltdownman

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 03:49 PM

Maybe the marina developer has plans to run his own water shuttle(s) for marina yacht owners, and pick up and drop off other passengers visiting the super-rich too, sort of like how a hotel has its own shuttle bus or even tour rides for guests. That would affect his business. Just a thought.


Since Barry has been very much against the marina, would it be smart for the Developers added this to the plan now ... even if they didn't plan to before ... simply to create a conflict of interest and prevent him from being involved if elected?

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