219 replies to this topic

[Bernard]

For the properties that the TLC owns, do they pay the regular property tax rate, or do they get a reduced rate somehow?

The norm for a land conservancy is to seek a permissive tax exemption which is normally granted. This can have problems. In the early 1990s there was a large piece of land in a north island community that was purchased by a land conservancy and it was going to have a major impact on their finances.

In the case of TLC, I have not checked to see if they have sought this in the past and if it can apply to all their properties. Abkazi gardens seem to be a revenue generator for TLC and should therefore not be getting the exemption.

[Bernard]

If TLC was making a committment to the CRD, were they making the committment thinking that donations would roll in from people wanting to save the land around Jordan River?

When TLC went through a reorganization three years ago it was because the board had lost confidence in the executive director. The people that used to be donors, are still wary of how their money was spent, so the donations to keep TLC afloat have not been forthcoming.

I am suprised that the CRD did not see this shortfall coming.

I was very concerned at the time and hoped the CRD had a contingency plan in place should TLC not come through. I alerted some of the CRD directors about my concerns at the time.

[phx]

More money troubles at TLC:

Bank accounts belonging to The Land Conservancy frozen this month by Canada Revenue Agency because of unpaid taxes have now been partially unfrozen to allow the cashstrapped organization to pay its staff.

Read more: TLC allowed cash to pay staff

They've also postponed their annual general meeting.

[DaveLarose]

Perhaps you have read about The Land Conservancy of BC's current cash plight. Well, let's actually do something about it!

Save rare and protected properties! -- Indiegogo

Can't hurt...

[Bingo]

Perhaps you have read about The Land Conservancy of BC's current cash plight. Well, let's actually do something about it!

Save rare and protected properties! -- Indiegogo

Can't hurt...

Well actually it has, and still can hurt, if you had been one of the many whose donations went to paying down a mortgage, only to find that a while later your property you "saved" was not "saved" because it had been re-mortgaged to finance further acquisitions.

The Annual General Meeting for TLC is at the UVIC Student Union Building on Saturday November 3, at 1:00 pm.

[Sparky]

Welcome to vibrantvictoria DaveLarose.

[HB]

Yes lets all send our money to help an organization that helps itself to the money in the form of huge wages.
Ya I'm all over that brilliant idea.

When I was a kid and a teenager my dad and other dads in our neighborhood would do frequent fishing trips up to Crabapple Shields and Grassies lakes in the Sooke Hills up on Harbourview road.

This area used to have a Boyscout camp and was logged in the 1940s and 1950s.

We used to bring our canoes and row boats up there and fish.
The access was on old logging roads that were not properly De-activated.

The roads were in poor shape but were passable permitting access to the lakes with boats. Great fishing up there

the TLC bought all the land surround the lakes and immediately closed the roads to any vehicles. The TLC blames off roaders for damaging the roads and not a lack of water control such as culverts.

The TLC effectively prohibited access to anyone who is not able to walk 5km with a car topper or canoe.

At the same time TLC employees and friends are able to use their own vehicles to access the roads.


I hope TLC folds and fades to nothing

[Baro]

I don't understand why they don't just act as a fund-raising group that then donates the land to the city/crd/province to be held by them as parks. They seem utterly unable to actually run or manage anything them selves.

[VicHockeyFan]

Yes lets all send our money to help an organization that helps itself to the money in the form of huge wages.
Ya I'm all over that brilliant idea.

We already do that, it's called taxes to the government.

Seriously though, TLC raised its own money, does not take tax money, and spends it as they see fit, and they have some accountability to donors. I'm fine with it.

I'm not sure how you go from 50 employees down to 12 and say that there wasn't some money wasted on wages though.

[Mike K.]

The mailouts regularly sent to donors, even one-time donors who donated minimal amounts of no more than $10, must cost an absolute fortune to devise, print and mail.

[VicHockeyFan]

The mailouts regularly sent to donors, even one-time donors who donated minimal amounts of no more than $10, must cost an absolute fortune to devise, print and mail.

That's the way professional fundraising on a grand scale is done.

[Mike K.]

I wouldn't say the TLC is grand scale anything, but I would say that the TLC's financial situation is indicative of the success of these costly mailouts.

Every few months I see them stack up in the recycle bin down at the post office where we have our PO box.

[Bernard]

I don't understand why they don't just act as a fund-raising group that then donates the land to the city/crd/province to be held by them as parks. They seem utterly unable to actually run or manage anything them selves.

This is done some of the time but they need to own the land free and clear to do this. Giving the land away does not make the books look good.

[renthefinn]

Yes lets all send our money to help an organization that helps itself to the money in the form of huge wages.
Ya I'm all over that brilliant idea.

When I was a kid and a teenager my dad and other dads in our neighborhood would do frequent fishing trips up to Crabapple Shields and Grassies lakes in the Sooke Hills up on Harbourview road.

This area used to have a Boyscout camp and was logged in the 1940s and 1950s.

We used to bring our canoes and row boats up there and fish.
The access was on old logging roads that were not properly De-activated.

The roads were in poor shape but were passable permitting access to the lakes with boats. Great fishing up there

the TLC bought all the land surround the lakes and immediately closed the roads to any vehicles. The TLC blames off roaders for damaging the roads and not a lack of water control such as culverts.

The TLC effectively prohibited access to anyone who is not able to walk 5km with a car topper or canoe.

At the same time TLC employees and friends are able to use their own vehicles to access the roads.


I hope TLC folds and fades to nothing

I agree wholeheartedly with your post, I have never had respect for the TLC after they took the access to these lands away.

[Bingo]

I heard that TLC is moving from it's third floor office space on Esquimalt Road, and will be returning to their old location at the old Gonzales Hill weather station.

[slinkyo]

Was hiking by there yesterday..noone there-just a bunch of boxes at this point. I'm guessing this is one of their properties. There is a park adjacent to it that not many know about. They probably saved the land from development. Kind of cool..

[Bingo]

Update on TLC's Finances

Update on TLC’s Finances | The Land Conservancy of BC

Message from TLC

Message from TLC | The Land Conservancy of BC

[Bernard]

In March of 2009 the board at the time saw there were serious systemic problems with the finances of TLC. They wanted to shift Bill Turner into a different role and have someone that could better manage the finances take over the head role, this did not happen and the board terminated Bill Turner on March 27th 2009.

People on that board were:

Brent Nichols
Richard Hankin
Peta Alexander
Judith Brand
Colin Gableman
Karin Lengger
Dave Zehnder
Jim Wyse
George West
Murray Rankin - yes, the guy wanting to be our next MP
Colin Rankin
Sue Morhun
Jean McIntosh
Lindsay Jones
Chris Hamilton
Deborah Griffiths
Michelle Ellison
Henry Ellis

A pretty strong list of people that many years of experience on the board. I am not sure what these board members think of TLC at the moment, but I suspect a lot of social capital was burned up in the dispute over the summer of 2009.

In the revolt against the board trying to look out for the best interests of TLC an agreement was made between TLC and the Turner faction that all sitting directors would resign and run for their positions again. Normally only 1/3 of the positions would be up for election in a given year. 10 directors had every right to remain on the board for their full term but they were all defeated in the election at the August 8th 2009 EGM.

On August 8th 2009 a new board of 11 new directors were elected, three of those resigned within the year because they were not happy with the management of TLC. On the new board only Briony Penn had been on the board, but to fill a resignation during the year the board appointed Gary Holman who had been a director a decade earlier and is currently the NDP candidate in Saanich North and the Islands.

The new board more or less immediately rehired Bill Turner and Ian Fawcett and things seem to have gone right back to where they were before.

Fast forward to the summer of 2012 and the TLC board has to remove Bill Turner as EDand chopped about 60% of the staff in hopes of saving the organization that is in the exact sort of problems the board in 2009 was trying to ensure would not happen.

How serious is it? Getting your accounts frozen by CRA means you have been asked to pay up for a long time and shown no serious efforts to fix the problem.

There are two positions up for election this year at the AGM which was supposed to be on September 15th. The date to file your nomination was July 8th, but this was not changed when the AGM was postponed till November 3rd. It means any member that wants to get on the board now that they see how serious the problem of TLC is can not run.

[DaveLarose]

Hi, well, I certainly plan on going to the AGM, and would have considered running for the BOD, but as someone else pointed out, that ship has sailed.

I still think that fundraising to save specific properties is a valid endeavour. TLC might have problems, and made many mistakes to get where they are today. The properties are still valid, and I am hopeful that they avoid having them being put up for general sale, or even transfered to other NGO's doesn't happen, as then preserving them seems like a risky proposition.

[Bingo]

Acting executive director Kathleen Sheppard is leaving at the end of the month.