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#61 Baro

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 01:35 AM

Wow, the origional plan was so much more open and vibrant. The extended shops would have made a huge impact, as well as the more open entrances.

Currently it's just an abandoned back-ally full of homless people and an ugly fountain.... a risky short cut, and nothing more.
"beats greezy have baked donut-dough"

#62 FunkyMunky

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 01:52 AM

Wow, the origional plan was so much more open and vibrant.

The large open plan violates at least two of the Pattern Language patterns, [url=http://downlode.org/Etext/patterns/ptn61.html:8939b]No. 61 Small Public Squares[/url:8939b] and [url=http://downlode.org/Etext/patterns/ptn106.html:8939b]No. 106 Positive Outdoor Space[/url:8939b].

#63 gumgum

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 09:13 AM

That throughfare between CRD and Cen square has a section that is partially covered by the playhouse - the place I've been *****ing about where it's now being used as a washroom. Well it has construction fencing around it now to prevent access.

#64 G-Man

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 09:56 AM

Wow, the origional plan was so much more open and vibrant.

The large open plan violates at least two of the Pattern Language patterns, [url=http://downlode.org/Etext/patterns/ptn61.html:218ae]No. 61 Small Public Squares[/url:218ae] and [url=http://downlode.org/Etext/patterns/ptn106.html:218ae]No. 106 Positive Outdoor Space[/url:218ae].


I don't think these are hard and fast rules I have seen many very vibrant squares around the world that are much bigger than descibed there. It is about use of space in the square and density in the area near the square.

The reason that Centennial is quiet is because few people live near here and most of the office and shopping areas are south of here.

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#65 G-Man

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 10:03 AM

I was in Centennial yesterday and I was looking at the size of the parkade and the stores that front onto Douglas. If the parkade is turned into the Public Library say at six or seven storeys and a 12 storey office along Douglas with at least 4 levels of underground parking to replace what will be taken away. You do all that and I guarantee the Centennial Square becomes a sought after public space to hang out in. Add to the mix the 600 or so new residents that will be living in The Hudson and the Well and this will be a more vibrant area of downtown than anywhere else.

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#66 Galvanized

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 11:36 AM

^I totally agree, if only City Hall would realize this. They may not go for the office building but it's a perfect location for a new library.

BTW, thanks for the photos Mr. West!
Past President of Victoria's Flâneur Union Local 1862

#67 Nparker

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 12:09 PM

I have long thought that the only way to revitalize Centennial Square is to have something there that brings and keeps people. A new public library is idea, especially if this is done in conjunction with a high-denisty housing project. Maybe this is an opportunity for one of those wonderful Public-Private collaborations that are supposed to work so well. A private developer could build a taller than zoned for residential tower to offset the cost of demolishing the current (dreadful) parkade and building in its place a new library. Add to this a sustantial undergound parking structure from which the city could still generate revenue and with some luck the little square that DIED can become the little square that DID. I can dream can't I?

#68 Holden West

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 12:51 PM

A plan must be formulated soon because the Centennial parkade is in the worst condition of all City-owned parkades and it in need of either immediate repair or demolition.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#69 gumgum

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 01:27 PM

I really hope they don't decide to upgrade it.
Fixing something that doesn't work in first place is counter-productive.
Bomb it, move on.

#70 Baro

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 03:43 PM

many will say the parkade is historic
"beats greezy have baked donut-dough"

#71 Holden West

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 05:30 PM

^Yes, but research would have to be done to determine how closely it resembles DiCastri's original plan. I somehow doubt the parkade as we know it is what Di Castri intended. There are some interesting bits to it but nothing that should stand in the way of a first-class redevelopment.

It's funny that a 40 year old concrete structure is falling apart, while on the other end of the world, a 2000 year old concrete building is doing quite well.
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#72 zoomer

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 07:51 PM

wow, that's an incredible model Holden!! Wouldn't that be cool if one day VV (when we're big and powerful) opened a Victoria architecture museum (in the lobby of a stunning 33 storey masterpiece built by Westbank).

We could dipslay all sorts of cool models like this!

Anyways, I love the leafless trees, very Tim Burtonesque!! That cross shaped restaurant hovering over the pool of water is classic too, I'd love to see a design like that it town.

#73 renthefinn

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 09:42 PM

Hey I like what westbank has brought to Victoria, but give other developers a chance to build your proposed 33 storey architecture museum before you hand it over to them!

#74 rayne_k

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 11:16 PM

The large open plan violates at least two of the Pattern Language patterns,


I don't think these are hard and fast rules I have seen many very vibrant squares around the world that are much bigger than descibed there..


Ditto.

#75 Holden West

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 07:30 PM

The giant steel ball is gone from CRD square. I don't know why. Repairs?

------

Centennial Square fix long-planned

Dec 01 2006

Plans to revitalize Centennial Square have been kicking around for at least 10 years.

It was back in 1996 when the council of the day heard about a four-phase revitalization project that, among other things, called for a library or other civic building fronting on Douglas Street to be built next to a potential art gallery/retail or residential building bordering Fisgard Street. The whole thing would be perched upon a 600-stall underground parkade on the site of the existing parkade.

“I think the overall concept that was advanced in that 10-year-old plan was this idea of opening up the square from key locations, so you knew that something important was going on in the centre,” said city planning director Deb Day.

It has since been molded and shaped, to the point where a rehabilitated Victoria police building – now home to the CRD’s environmental services division – and a strategically placed CRD head office next door generally follow the plan.

The views through the square have already been opened up with the dedication of Lee Mong Kow Way, a pathway linking the square to Fisgard Street, and the diagonally situated CRD building, which allows a clear sightline from the Chinese arch at Government Street to the clock tower of city hall.

Having already approved demolition of the former Antoine’s Restaurant connected to the McPherson Playhouse, city council last month budgeted an extra $50,000 for the job to allow for increased costs.

Writing on behalf of the Downtown Victoria Community Alliance, Mohan Jawl said his group supports the idea of removing the restaurant. He wrote that opening up the square to the southwest would have “a significant positive impact” similar to the one achieved with the construction of the CRD building, and called the move a “big step in the right direction.”

The city will likely apply for provincial funding to further spruce up the square, after Premier Campbell announced that money will be available for upgrading civic squares.

© Copyright 2006 Victoria News

- - - - - - - - -
City seeks Square cleanup



Courtesy City of Victoria
Photo illustration shows a view of Centennial Square with the former Antoine’s Restaurant removed.


By Don Descoteau
Victoria News
Dec 01 2006

Rampant drug use in Centennial Square was just one reason city council decided removal of a vacant restaurant annex connected to the McPherson Playhouse was a good idea.

Creating a more clear viewscape between Douglas Street and Pandora Avenue, as a way to enhance the vibrancy and safety in the square, was also on the minds of politicians who voted for the demolition – such as when they approved the angled design of the new Capital Regional District headquarters on the northwest corner of the square.

But the drug issue and overall safety in the area are more on the minds of police who patrol the area.

“It’s unfortunate we’re living in a society where we have to change buildings or close off alleys or gate off alcoves due to the addiction issues that the city is starting to be plagued with,” lamented Sgt. Jamie Pearce, who heads up the city’s bike patrol. “These are some bigger issues we need to deal with on a bigger scale.”

While removing the former Antoine’s Restaurant would reduce the number of alcoves and shadowy places people could use to hide out when shooting up, there remain a number of nooks and crannies where people can take refuge to feed their habit, he said.

The public washrooms, reopened last year at the base of the city parkade, are recessed and out of sight. Commissionaires regularly monitor their use and one man on duty Wednesday confirmed that regular drug use goes on in the washrooms.

“We just make sure nobody overdoses in there,” he said, noting that a needle container in the washroom is well used.

Once upon a time, the square was as overrun with dealers as users. Thanks to stepped-up police surveillance, most dealers have moved on to other areas, Pearce said.

It got to the point a few months ago where the frequency of addicts shooting up in a covered area at the rear of the McPherson Playhouse – city staff were collecting up to 70 needles a day from the alcove – prompted the installation of a 10-foot high chain-link fence to prevent misuse of the area.

Part of the reason the square tends to be a popular place to shoot up, Pearce contends, is its location between the Streetlink shelter and the needle exchange located at AIDS Vancouver Island at Blanshard and Cormorant streets.

Victoria Coun. Charlayne Thornton-Joe is downtown liaison on city council and is well-versed with the challenges the city and police face in trying to clean up certain areas of the core.

“The reality is, whenever we do something that deals with CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design) issues, it just displaces the problems,” she admitted.

“A police officer once told me that (drug dealing problems are) like a balloon, if you squeeze on one side the pressure just goes somewhere else.”

Thornton-Joe recalled that when she first was elected to council she heard rumblings of dealing in the square. The combination of regular security and more police presence have helped stem the amount of drug activity in the square, she said.

“I think whenever the square is animated with activity, that helps.”

The completion of the CRD buildings, the popularity of Summer in the Square entertainment events and the filling up of all office and ground-floor retail spaces in the parkade building all contribute in that regard, Thornton-Joe said.

The restaurant removal is scheduled to begin early next year.

mailto:ddescoteau@vicnews.com
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#76 gumgum

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 09:32 PM

The giant steel ball is gone from CRD square. I don't know why. Repairs?

I bet I know why.
I was playing with it about a week ago when I noticed that ha lf the lettering was peeling off. No wonder. The lettering which looked like it all had been cut from a large roll of electrical tape was glued on the metal.

Applying essentially stickers to a public art piece that you know will be submerged in water.

Great plan.

#77 Caramia

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 10:03 PM

I was wondering about the missing steel ball last night. I hope they are doing something more permanent with the names of our sister cities, like engraving them on the ball.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#78 aastra

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 10:26 PM

I'll be glad to see that restaurant gone but I'd prefer to see a new commercial building built in its place. The idea that prying open the square will eliminate problems is just silly. The square needs life and light. It needs restaurants and coffee shops and buildings with big windows and lots of pedestrian traffic.

#79 G-Man

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 08:35 AM

Yeah I noticed the sticker like writing on the ball as well and thought that they better be engraving it.

So when is that fountain in that square going to be finished.

Aastra While I agree that the square needs more commerical activity I also think that it needs more open sides. Removinf Antoines is a great idea that "building" is an eyesore.

Potential ideas:

They should have put some commercial space or at least something in that area under City hall that they did the seismic on last year. The bottom of the CRD Environment building should have been commercial. However the single idea that would cost no money and could potentially bring lots of people to the square is FOOD CARTS. License four of them for anywhere in the square and let them try out busniness. YOu many only get two to start with but who knows.

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It has a whole new look!

 


#80 Caramia

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 10:40 AM

And one of them should be year round Langos. 24/7.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

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