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0.05 alcohol limit for drivers -- how will it impact bars and restaurants?


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#41 Baro

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 12:08 PM

I drove past a roadblock and was all excited to stick it to the man and not answer anything I wasn't legally obligated to, but he just took one look at me and waved me through.
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#42 dirtydeeds

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 12:54 PM

I drove past a roadblock and was all excited to stick it to the man and not answer anything I wasn't legally obligated to, but he just took one look at me and waved me through.


That just pisses me off when that happens

#43 OTRA17

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 01:52 PM

Some of the attitudes towards driving displayed in this forum are pretty disgusting.

The arguments used to justify it are meaningless - the facts are pretty clear. If you drive you are more dangerous on the road and more likely to cause an accident that can have a huge impact not only on your life, but others too. It's such a selfish, needless thing to do. Please walk or take a bus.


VHF,

I couldnt agree more. Dont you find at times tho...some people no matter what still drink and drive!!! Even those really close to you!!

#44 AnonAnnie2

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 05:07 AM

MADD pushes for random breath testing of Canadian drivers

Read more: http://www.montrealg...l#ixzz11aEuGVpD

By Rebecca Lindell, Postmedia News October 5, 2010

OTTAWA — Random breath tests could drive down the number of crashes involving impaired motorists in this country by 20 per cent, according to Mothers Against Drunk Driving Canada.



.....Justice Minister Rob Nicholson, who expressed his support for the tests last October, is scheduled to discuss potential changes to Canada's impaired driving laws with his provincial and territorial counterparts next week in Vancouver.


Currently, police can legally conduct breath tests at checkpoints and on patrol if they have reason to suspect a driver is operating a motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol. Random breath tests could force every driver who goes through a roadside checkpoint to undergo a breathalyzer test. It would allow police to pull anyone over, without reasonable suspicion.


MADD Canada points to Australia and Ireland as success stories.









#45 sebberry

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 07:00 AM

MADD is an emotion driven organization, about as dangerous as PETA but with about as much clout as the anti plastic bag people.

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#46 Rob Randall

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 07:03 AM

As much as I am anti-drunk driving I don't support much random anything, whether it be alcohol testing or backpack or ID checks by police.

#47 sebberry

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 07:05 AM

As much as I am anti-drunk driving I don't support much random anything, whether it be alcohol testing or backpack or ID checks by police.


I'm in the same boat as you are. With the exception of a glass of wine (preferably white) on Christmas, thanksgiving or new years, I don't drink, yet I still hate the idea that I could be stopped for no reason other than to ensure I haven't been drinking.


Papers, please.

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#48 rjag

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 08:29 AM

MADD is an emotion driven organization, about as dangerous as PETA but with about as much clout as the anti plastic bag people.


That made my day!!! Thank you!

#49 http

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 07:41 PM

Well, it doesn't miss the mark, it is what it is. If you don't want to be stopped at arbitrary roadblocks, don't drive a vehicle.

As long as we drink and drive -- which is illegal beyond the legal limit -- there will be roadblocks.

I'm not unaware of privacy and our freedoms. I stand in the way of anything that clamps on my freedoms or pushes us further down a slippery slope but something needs to give if our society cannot eradicate drunk driving.
[ snip ]
Roadblocks also serve a purpose of . . .


There's another way to not be stopped at arbitrary roadblocks: get the police to quit setting them up. I admit, it's not a simple solution, and possibly not likely to gain much traction, but it is a solution.

I want drunk drivers off the road. I also don't want your freedoms clamped down on. The two goals are compatible. I believe a better solution is to make people think that (i) convictions are likely if arrested, (ii) arrests are likely if the offense is committed, and (iii) convicted offenders are SLAMMED DOWN HARD. So hard, people calculate "It's just not worth the risk" consistently. Currently practice of roadside suspensions works against (i) and (ii). I can't find stats on imposed penalites from the bench*, but MADD has been carping on the subject of weak penalties for decades. I think if we had a handfull or two of decade long imprisonment sentences handed out every year, we might actually see a change in behaviour.

The other "useful" aspects of roadblocks you list don't take away from them being arbitrary detainment by the police.

* If someone has a link to such data, please inform us?

** Possibly important disclaimers: I have a permit to drive in BC, class 5, but don't own a car. I'm also missing an immediate family member due to someone deciding driving while drunk was a good idea, so I may have a harder time than most discussing the whole subject unemotionally.
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#50 LeWolf86

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 10:39 PM

I have to say I agree with many people here on both sides, and I disagree a bit also.

I think its the evolution of government and laws that has turned driving into a priveledge, and not a right. I think back in the days it was a right a to drive if you could afford it.... and for many communities I still do believe its a right because of the lack of transportation and the great distances.

Try doing anything if you live in East Sooke or Mill Bay.


As for the new laws.. I think their horse ****. Like others have said, there are far more distracting things on the roads then 1-2 drinks in people. Its like cellphone law... idiots who drive and add distractions or impairing effects will most likely crash. There are so many people in this city who dont know how to drive, and we get plagued with 30km speed zones everywhere, and restrictions in everything we do driving to cater to morons.

Anyways, I think bars and restaurants might want to install their own breathalizer tests. Will allow people to figure out whether to chill out with some water or drive home.

As for cops, I always get nervous around them, even if I have no reason to be. Its just they can be super nice, or total dicks.

#51 sebberry

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 11:21 PM

I have to say I agree with many people here on both sides, and I disagree a bit also.

I think its the evolution of government and laws that has turned driving into a priveledge, and not a right. I think back in the days it was a right a to drive if you could afford it.... and for many communities I still do believe its a right because of the lack of transportation and the great distances.


The "It's not a right" argument always seems to be presented when the powers that be can't come up with a legitimate reason for their decisions. The longer the erosion of rights progresses, the quicker people forget they actually had rights. Keep tightening the vice, they eventually forget the time when the vice wasn't there.

I don't support drunk-driving, I make that argument for other things too.

Anyways, I think bars and restaurants might want to install their own breathalizer tests. Will allow people to figure out whether to chill out with some water or drive home.

They already are, trouble is they won't be calibrated regularly and people's BAC continues to rise after they blow a pass and leave the pub. Patrons will blow a .04 and wonder why 20 min later they failed after blowing into an ASD.

As for cops, I always get nervous around them, even if I have no reason to be.


I feel the same.

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#52 AnonAnnie2

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 06:09 PM

“I think people don’t understand that they can go in and have a couple of glasses of wine with dinner and still leave and be OK [to drive],” he said. “I think what happened was the fear hit in such a way that they said, ‘We can’t have a drink at all.’ And that wasn’t the intent of the legislation.”
Coleman said the public is so concerned that “they’ve really actually stopped using the hospitality sector at the level that they probably once did, and that’s brought some concerns from that sector, and from the public.”


Read more: http://www.timescolo...l#ixzz14kNchiD7

Hit the nail on the head Coleman - I've certainly stopped using the hospitality sector at the level I used to (a nice dinner and two glasses of wine for myself, my partner 2 glasses of wine, our four other guests 2 glasses of wine and so on).



#53 sebberry

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 07:02 AM

Rich Coleman needs to be careful with what he says - 2 large glasses of wine *can* put someone at .05.

Pubs are losing business, the government loses out on alcohol tax. Clearly money is the reason why this law is being re-looked at, not the fact that the judicial process is being completely bypassed when your car is impounded for three days without a conviction and based solely on a "warn" charge from a possibly inaccurate device.

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#54 Mike K.

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 10:02 AM

The Globe and Mail ran two articles last night the seemed to contradict each other.

In one article, Coleman is quoted as saying that we can "have a couple of glasses of wine with dinner," and in the other he said 90% of individuals stopped and found to have consumed alcohol are getting their vehicles impounded.

If 90% of drivers are receiving suspensions it's pretty darn obvious that you cannot (!) "have a couple of glasses of wine with dinner."

Clearly the government is feeling the pain from lower alcohol sales but I doubt the lower limit is only to blame. Plenty of people have decreased outings to restaurants because of the HST, and if they're not going out for dinner, they certainly won't be having a glass or two with wine.

Does anyone else see the irony here? We create lower drinking limits to increase safety on our roads (the new law itself is named after a 4-year-old girl killed by a drunk driver). The limits are successful in reducing driving after drinking alcohol. But the government feels the pinch and is now rushing to make us feel at ease with drinking and driving. This just doesn't add up.

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#55 sebberry

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:19 AM

I just wish there was a monetary loss associated with the new speed/race laws so we could have those repealed too.

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#56 spanky123

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 01:13 PM

Does anyone else see the irony here? We create lower drinking limits to increase safety on our roads (the new law itself is named after a 4-year-old girl killed by a drunk driver). The limits are successful in reducing driving after drinking alcohol. But the government feels the pinch and is now rushing to make us feel at ease with drinking and driving. This just doesn't add up.


Where the "drunk driver" tested at 0.04 and 0.06 percent which Coleman now seems to suggest is ok.

A significant reason why people are cutting back on alcohol at restaurants is the HST. People still want to eat out but cutting back on a drink makes up for the extra tax they pay on the bill.

#57 sebberry

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 01:43 PM

Solicitor General Rich Coleman wants B.C. police to lighten up in the way they apply tough new drinking laws, he told The Province on Monday, to the relief of hard-pressed restaurant owners.

I don’t think a lot of discretion is being used,” Coleman said of police forces’ response to the new tougher penalties introduced by his government last month, which gave officers the power to impound drunk drivers’ vehicles for seven days and impose fines.


From: http://www.theprovin...k driving laws/
3797223/story.html?cid=megadrop_story#ixzz14p4qKA6g


Coleman said one of the concerns is that too many vehicles are being towed when there is the option of parking the vehicle legally or having someone else drive it home. He said vehicles are being impounded 90 per cent of the time when "warns" occur.

"I don't think that was an anticipated result," Coleman said.

From:
http://www.timescolo...l#ixzz14p97ha7g

So Mr. de Jong , what did you think would happen when you tell police to tow cars for people barely blowing a warn?

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#58 jonny

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 03:30 PM

This whole .05 thing is a joke. I love that the solicitor general is calling these "unintended negative consequences". Of course people are going to go out less! How can that not be a foreseeable consequence? You can't even share a pitcher of beer or a bottle of wine with a friend without having to budget $25 for a cab! Everything that is happening is so predictable. Of course people are going out less.

I have serious problems with the new .05 drinking law and the new speeding laws. Police should not have the judicial and punitive powers these laws have bestowed upon them. I agree with others in this thread who have spoken about our wonderful road checks. I know drinking and driving is bad. It’s incredibly irresponsible. I get it. I also think it's wrong to get randomly questioned by the Gestapo when driving a vehicle at night. Could you imagine if you were walking down Douglas St and some copper asked you for your ID? No way should you give it to them!

#59 Mike K.

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:07 PM

Is our society so incredibly tied to automobiles that we would opt to stay home rather than go out and enjoy a night out with friends if we cannot drive to the bar?

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#60 jonny

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:14 PM

Is our society so incredibly tied to automobiles that we would opt to stay home rather than go out and enjoy a night out with friends if we cannot drive to the bar?


Nope, I don't think so. But our government has made it marginally more difficult and expensive to enjoy the services of restaurants and bars so of course there is going to be a corresponding drop in demand.

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