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Suburban sprawl in the CRD


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#41 mysage

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 12:50 PM

Sorry there gum gum but I am not sitting on the fence. I am firmly planted in the real world. your density in Fairfield hardly equates to the density that is often promoted on this site to argue against urban sprawl.
Again I listen to the experts expound their theories and then relate it to my experiences and they don't match up. Why is that?

Vancouvers West End , Gastown and Yaletown and now parts of Victoria contains some of the most crowded areas in Canada and I have lived in 3 of the 4 of them. Not one of them was even close to being free of the social ills that plague our society today.

Sorry my well read Utopian friend(s) but my children are not going to be exposed to some experiments in social planning that through my experiences aren't working.

I now have to go tend my garden plot in the back yard (small as it may be),walk down to the school to meet the kids and then hop the Trolley to meet friends at our favourite sidewalk cafe in downtown Langford. End of discussions on this matter - over and out.

#42 gumgum

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 01:06 PM

I'm glad you're happy.

BTW, you misunderstood what I wrote. Other's reading this are on the fence. Not you. It's obvious that have dug in your heals a long time ago. I realize you're not getting it, or don't want to. Fair enough.

#43 LJ

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:31 PM

Can't we just agree that everyone has an opinion about where they want to live and the right to live like they want. mysage doesn't try to force you to live in suburbia why should he be chastised for wanting to live there.

If everybody wanted to live in dense inner cities there would be no suburbs or small towns, but there are thousands of them, so obviously people like it.

I agree density works downtown and should be encouraged, but it is not for everybody and just because "you" choose or are forced to live there doesn't make it the only correct choice.

I and others get tired of the proselytizing from the fringe groups, special interest groups, higher purpose persons, limousine liberals and the loony left etc. about how we should live, and support them while we are at it. There is no moral high ground here, just a difference of opinions. I don't try to force you to live my lifestyle, give me the same courtesy.
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#44 WSgrrl

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:37 PM

Actually I read a statistic that there are more crimes per capital in rural area and you are more likely to be harmed by someone you know!

#45 jklymak

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 07:58 PM

I don't try to force you to live my lifestyle, give me the same courtesy.


Fine, but don't clamour for overpasses, wider highways, and a lower gas tax.

#46 LJ

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 07:25 PM

Fine, but don't clamour for overpasses, wider highways, and a lower gas tax.


As long as you don't clamour for more police, transit, and subsidized housing, homeless shelters, government services, etc.

FWIW I don't have a problem with gas taxes, and I don't commute so that doesn't bother me. I go into Victoria maybe twice a month, at non peak periods. But, I do hate to see people wasting time and money sitting in traffic being non productive.
Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#47 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 08:14 PM

You guys aren't arguing about density if one of you (mysage) says that living downtown was a crap experience and the other (gumgum) says that living in Fairfield is great. Fairfield is much more densely populated than downtown (heck, Langford is probably more densely populated than downtown!), so it's not "density" that makes living downtown disagreeable.

Whether or not it's density that makes living in the Cook Street Village environs agreeable is another question.

I'd argue, "yes," because Fairfield's density makes CSV an agreeable, people-packed (by Victoria standards) place to hang out.

But it's not "density" (unless you mean its absence) that makes downtown disagreeable. It's the behaviors of the few who do make it their habitual place of mischief.
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#48 gumgum

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 08:19 PM

CSV is good design, by mistake.

#49 jklymak

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 08:37 PM

^^hmmmm, I think living downtown is great. Maybe I have a thick skin...

#50 davek

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 09:23 PM

CSV is good design, by mistake.


When you say "by mistake", do you mean that it is good despite being planned, or that it is good despite NOT being planned?

#51 gumgum

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 07:57 AM

I'm saying that the combination of it being dense and being livable may have more to do with chance than city planning.
Yes, much of Fairfield was a planned neighbourhood. But it's not very similar to the one originally conceived. Secondary suites and those ugly apartments along Cook north to Fort, contribute to its density. The original railcar route passed through CSV, which made CSV a logical place for commercial. It just so happens that it sits near the ocean and Beacon Hill.

It's a combination of factors that converge.

Compare it to a neighbourhood like Coal Harbour, which I would also conclude is a very successful neighbourhood. I much of its success seems to me was attributed to heavy planning.
Just thinking out loud.

#52 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 07:57 AM

^^hmmmm, I think living downtown is great. Maybe I have a thick skin...


I used to live in Vancouver's West End, and thought it was great. I was referring, above, to mysage's p.o.v.: he clearly did not find living there - or in Victoria's downtown - agreeable. He disliked it (among other reasons) because of incidents of crime and/or social disturbances. I'm saying that those incidents do not stem from density, but rather from the behaviors of a minority of people (most of whom don't even live downtown). Meanwhile, mysage has moved to a municipality (Langford) that probably has a greater population density than our decimated downtown (unscientific statement on my part, I don't have the stats - but considering how far we have to go before bringing downtown residential levels back up to 1970s levels, my statement might not be as wild as it seems).
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#53 Mike K.

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:09 PM

Perhaps someone here knows something about this.

A whole swath of trees have been cut down along the Malahat in the area of the Shawnigan turn-off on the east side of the highway. I can't imagine this has anything to do with Bamberton as the project is situated further north. Any idea? It's odd seeing an open expanse where thick forest once stood.

If memory serves correct this is more or less the location. The clearcut must stretch several hundred meters along the highway and some distance to the east.

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#54 UrbanRail

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:25 PM

Perhaps someone here knows something about this.

A whole swath of trees have been cut down along the Malahat in the area of the Shawnigan turn-off on the east side of the highway. I can't imagine this has anything to do with Bamberton as the project is situated further north. Any idea? It's odd seeing an open expanse where thick forest once stood.

If memory serves correct this is more or less the location. The clearcut must stretch several hundred meters along the highway and some distance to the east.


I tried to do a search but couldnt come up with anything yet. I suspect that either a new development is going in or perhaps some upgrades near the Shawnigan Lake turn off?

#55 Bingo

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:12 PM

Perhaps someone here knows something about this.

A whole swath of trees have been cut down along the Malahat in the area of the Shawnigan turn-off on the east side of the highway. I can't imagine this has anything to do with Bamberton as the project is situated further north. Any idea? It's odd seeing an open expanse where thick forest once stood.

If memory serves correct this is more or less the location. The clearcut must stretch several hundred meters along the highway and some distance to the east.


One would hope that it would be to improve that intersection. If the road was wider you could have more of a deceleration lane to exit onto Shawanigan Lake turnoff while heading south, and more of a merge lane when entering the highway going south.

Then you add the dividers down the middle to help prevent more head-ons in the area.

#56 G-Man

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:58 PM

I assumed someone was just harvesting some trees. I could see a subdivision go in there. It is only a matter of time. That one along South Shawnigan is pretty big.

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#57 weisguy86

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:55 AM

http://www2.news.gov...0028-000380.htm

"Other safety improvements include priority intersection upgrades at Finlayson Arm Road, Shawnigan Lake Road and the Malahat village, additional enforcement pullout areas, installation of an advanced weather advisory system, and improved lighting, signage and roadside delineation. These improvements along Highway 1 will significantly increase safety along this key transportation corridor."

#58 weisguy86

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:58 AM

map showing improvement areas, shows south shawnigan as:

"Construction of a south-bound acceleration lane"

&

"Widening the highway and installing approximately 1 KM of concrete median barrier south of the intersection."

http://www.th.gov.bc...rojects_MAP.pdf

#59 Mike K.

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:47 PM

Hmm. Seems like a lot of trees had to to make way for any improvements. I can see a few meters required to expand the highway at that location but crews clearcut what must be 200 meters to the east.

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#60 G-Man

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:26 PM

Yeah this is not for the highway.

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