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Police Amalgamation


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#41 Rorschach

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 02:28 PM

Wow. You completely and utterly missed my point.

'No Call too Small' and 'Broken Windows' are respectively the police's and the community's part of community policing.

Both sides need to be addressed.


How is the no call too small side addressed at zero cost to the taxpayer?

#42 Mike K.

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 09:02 AM

What the heck...?

‘Cop out’ on police merger push riles mayor
Politicians blast solicitor-general for dismissing amalgamation task force


BY ROB SHAW Times Colonist staff

The province’s top cop has refused to create a task force on amalgamating Greater Victoria’s police departments, a decision some local politicians call “a total cop-out” and others say they simply refuse to accept.

Solicitor General John Les said he disagrees with claims that police integration around the capital region has failed. A surprised Victoria Mayor Alan Lowe blasted Les’s decision, calling it a “huge disappointment” and one his city is “not going to just accept.”

The mayors of Victoria and Esquimalt asked Les to consider the task force in a letter last month. They said years of working with nearby municipalities, such as Saanich, had failed to produce the cross-border integrated units the provincial government demanded.

Amalgamation into a unified police force is the solution, and the province should start a task force to investigate the idea, they said.

“I appreciate your concern regarding what you feel is a lack of progress and direction in integration around the Greater Victoria area,” Les wrote to the mayors in a letter released at a Victoria police board meeting last night. “However, I must disagree.”

Instead of creating a task force, Les said he will hold meetings with all the mayors. The capital region has seven police departments covering 13 municipalities between Sidney and Sooke. Les said he would specifically like to see them have integrated serious crime units and police dispatch services.

But Lowe said he won’t drop the task force idea, and plans to repeat his request during a face-to-face meeting with the minister tomorrow.

“We’re not going to just accept the letter and move on,” said Lowe.

Lowe said he wants to explain how Victoria police officers are working at over-capacity, with higher case loads and higher per capita costs than Saanich, he said. “The population in VictoriaEsquimalt are paying the lion’s share of policing in this region,” said Lowe. “When you’re looking at a region of 350,000, is that fair? I don’t think so.”

Esquimalt councillor Basil Bolton called the province’s decision frustrating. “I think this is a total cop-out by the solicitor general,” he said at the police board’s joint council meeting with local politicians last night. “What he’s talking about, I have no clue. But he’s not talking about public safety.”

Les wrote in his letter that there has been “significant progress” on integration, and his government will continue to provide “a leadership role” in moving forward.

However, in interviews he has also said Greater Victoria police should do a better job on integration, and if they don’t, the province will amalgamate the forces. His critics, including the NDP, have said Les isn’t being clear with his demands or providing enough leadership.

As well, to the annoyance of Victoria politicians, Les has publicly praised an agreement between Oak Bay and Saanich police that contracts out many services — such as murder investigations — to the larger Saanich force.

“The Saanich-Oak Bay arrangements are something I very much salute,” Les said in an interview last week.

“I think those are significant and responsible steps forward. So definitely, I’m very much on the same page with them.”

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#43 Mike K.

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 09:14 AM

This is somewhat related to the story above.

But read the last few lines. Something's brewing...

Police struggle with violent man as troubled radio system fails

BY SANDRA MCCULLOCH Times Colonist staff

Staff at Streetlink Emergency Shelter called 911 yesterday when three Victoria police officers who were fighting a mentally ill man couldn’t get their pleas for backup to reach dispatchers on their troubled radio system.

At one point the man, who was wanted on a mental-health warrant, cornered a female officer and repeatedly struck her in the face, said Const. Peter Lane.

“He’s striking her in the face [while] another officer is trying to get on the radio and call for assistance and no voice transmission is going out. It wasn’t until staff at Streetlink called 911 and said ‘Your officers are in trouble’ that the troops were really going quickly and en masse to assist.”

Streetlink staff and police officers were finally able to get the 28-year-old man under control and handcuffed, said Lane. Two officers received cuts and bruises, were treated at hospital and released. The man was treated for self-inflicted cuts to his wrists.

This was the latest incident where the CREST radio system left officers in the lurch, and frustration is growing over the $17.5-million project that was supposed to bring co-ordinated emergency communications to the capital region.

Police officers had already expressed concern over the lack of radio signals inside concrete parkades, but the radio failure at Streetlink, at 1634 Store St., came as a surprise.

“We’re not talking about being buried underground in a parkade,” Lane said. “We’re talking about walking into a building of very common construction material.”

The radios can work in one area one day and fail in the same area the next. The signal issues cover the entire city, said Lane, and the situation is putting police officers’ lives at risk.

“The fears are that at some point, unless this system is fixed or replaced, that something bad will happen and it’s only a matter of time.”

There’s an added risk to the public when officers speed to a call like this with lights and sirens through the downtown, said Lane. There’s no way to tell them when the suspect is in custody and they can slow down.

Everyone from management to frontline officers is frustrated with the system, he said.

“We want to make sure the thanks go out to Streetlink, who not only called 911 to alert of a problem but also jumped in and helped to [control] the guy.”

Victoria Mayor Alan Lowe said there’s always concern for the health and safety of officers.

“I’m not pleased that it failed on them during an emergency, but I know the CREST officials are trying to work out the issues.

“Quite frankly, if something happened I think we’d have some liability there.”

A study is being carried out to identify problem areas, said Lowe.

Saanich Coun. Vic Derman has followed the CREST saga. “It can’t continue the way it is,” he said last night.

A consultant’s report pointed to the system of governance that allowed the CREST system to be implemented, said Derman. “I have yet to get real answers to who’s responsible for setting this up and who made the errors. I’m in possession of the original RFP (request for proposals) and there’s clear language in it about ... the need for building penetration and the fact first-responders were relying on it. And when the contract was signed, all that language had been taken out.

“I just would really like to know how that happened and who let it happen.”


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#44 Rorschach

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 09:14 AM

Unfortunately, this problem is going to addressed as if it was a drug addict or alcoholic -- the cities will have to hit rock bottom and go bankrupt or far into the red and THEN they will "decide" to amalgamate because there's nothing else possible to do to solve the problem.

It's really sad that the citizens will have to take it in the financial ass until the politicians take their own heads out of their own asses. Geez!

#45 m0nkyman

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 09:20 AM

How is the no call too small side addressed at zero cost to the taxpayer?


Policing is an investment in a safer community, not a cost. Yes, we need to invest more in policing. It pays off in lower insurance rates if we lower property crime, and a safer community which in turn attracts more people and increases the tax base which if managed properly can lower our individual tax rates....

#46 Rorschach

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 09:28 AM

Just so that I'm not always just complaining, I want to repeat my own solution to police amalgamation: a comprehensive mutual aid agreement.

Such an agreement will detail the circumstances where one city can seek aid from another and exactly how the city that needs and uses the resource has to pay the city that provided the resource.

If the agreement is comprehensive a mutually agreed upon fair system where everyone's police officers in the region are available to the other regions and all cities are properly and fairly compensated, the effect is de facto amalgamation.

An agreement like this would allow local control of local concerns to remain in place -- to please the politicians and police brass.

The downside to this arrangement is that it will not save any money. You don't get more for less. More costs more and the same costs the same. No employees will be lost and you'll still have a plethora of duplicative upper management far beyond any practical need for them. The highest paid employees become the least needed, which is quite a large waste.

This is a way to address fairness, equity and efficiency in the use and deployment of police in the region.

#47 Rorschach

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 09:42 AM

Policing is an investment in a safer community, not a cost. Yes, we need to invest more in policing. It pays off in lower insurance rates if we lower property crime, and a safer community which in turn attracts more people and increases the tax base which if managed properly can lower our individual tax rates....


And if wishes were horses beggars would ride. The reality is that a high level of police service comes at a high cost. The Victoria area has very good police service indeed and crime continues to escalate. The primary cause of increased crime is increases in population. The more people, the more crime.

Are you familiar with something called the red queen principle? This principle is based on the observation to Alice by the Red Queen in Lewis Carroll's "Through the Looking Glass" that "in this place it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place."

I likewise doubt any possibility of lowering our tax rates for any reason. Has it ever happened? Applying the red queen principle to the economics and reality of the situation in Victoria makes your solution unrealistic.

Who pays the upfront costs of "investing more" in policing? When was the last time anyone's insurance rates were cut due to a reduction in the crime rate and was that reduction the same or greater than the cost of the increased taxes required to improve police in the first place? You are running in place to stand still under the very best of circumstances in the scenario you propose.

#48 aastra

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 02:43 PM

I'm confused as to what the other two cops were doing when the guy managed to corner the third cop. More details, please.

#49 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 04:26 PM

Did anybody see/ can someone (please) post the "Comment" in today's T-C, p.a09, which is locked, but starts like this:

Police amalgamation leads to centralization

Neighbourhood patrols would likely decrease with an integrated force

Amalgamation of police departments in the Victoria region is again in the public eye. When Solicitor General John Les commented at the Union of B.C. Municipalities convention that he wanted to see progress around the integration of police services in the Victoria region, many interpreted him to be saying that amalgamation was an option.

I'm curious about the reasoning behind the statement that neighbourhood patrols "would likely decrease."
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#50 Rorschach

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 07:37 AM

Neighbourhood patrols provide only a random benefit since they are by nature, random.

Criminals have long ago figured out that you need only wait for the cruiser's taillights to disappear around the corner before doing your business. The police need the neighborhood itself to be the eyes and ears and have the willingness to get involved.

To me any increase or decrease in neighbourhood patrols is not the issue to decide for or against amalgamation.

#51 Mike K.

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 03:15 PM

Ms. B, here's that article you were referring to...

Police amalgamation leads to centralization
Neighbourhood patrols would likely decrease with an integrated force


BY JIM MCDAVID
Amalgamation of police departments in the Victoria region is again in the public eye. When Solicitor General John Les commented at the Union of B.C. Municipalities convention that he wanted to see progress around the integration of police services in the Victoria region, many interpreted him to be saying that amalgamation was an option.

Local political leaders, police chiefs, the media and citizens weighed in and the discussion quickly broadened to fully amalgamating police departments in the region. The mayors of Victoria and Esquimalt called for a task force to look at the issue in depth. They pointed to the success of the City of Victoria in providing all police services to Esquimalt and suggested that combining all departments could yield more benefits.

At the same time, the failings of the CREST emergency communications system were highlighted. If this is what integration brings us, then it is time to amalgamate — the small, underresourced and territorial police forces need to be combined. Crime crosses municipal boundaries and so should the police.

But in all this, the voice of the business community in Esquimalt stands out. Those who are speaking out are saying that the policing contract with Victoria has changed for the worse the level of service that Esquimalt gets.

The criticism from the Esquimalt business community is telling. In amalgamations that have occurred elsewhere in Canada and the U.S., the local business community is strongly in favour of amalgamating local governments and is a leader in amalgamation campaigns.

Let us look at the Esquimalt situation more closely. A recent article suggested that the Victoria Police Department should implement a community-oriented policing model which would see police officers based in Esquimalt responding to the community’s needs.

The idea of community policing is not new. In fact the Victoria Police Department implemented a community policing program in 1987. Five community police stations were situated in Victoria’s neighbourhoods, with uniformed officers there during the daytime.

Although implemented with high expectations, the program did not survive. A key reason had to do with where it was situated within the Victoria Police Department. The program operated out of the community services section, the same unit that does school liaison work. A three-year evaluation of the program in 1991 recommended that it be moved to the patrol division, but it never was. The project was never fully integrated into the department’s core patrol activities.

What is the relevance of this to the current situation? The experience of other communities that have either voted to support amalgamation or had it imposed is that police services, even where there is an initial commitment to maintaining levels of services to outlying areas, are eventually centralized.

In Halifax, for example, it took several years, but the initial commitment to maintaining patrol service levels in Bedford and Dartmouth was eroded as the total number of patrol officers was reduced region-wide and the organizational structure was centralized.

The experience of the business community in Esquimalt is not an isolated occurrence. Amalgamation brings centralization. Although it may yield some efficiencies in support services, centralization does not result in the same levels of community-sensitive, patrolbased services, particularly to those areas outside of the downtown core.

Police departments allocate their resources to anticipate and respond to incidents and crime-related incidents have the highest priority. For the communities in the Victoria region, dealing with crime-related calls for service is important, but it is not all that the communities in Greater Victoria expect or currently receive from their own police departments.

But make no mistake, the issue of amalgamation is still with us. The problems with the CREST system have not been resolved. Until they are, we have the makings of a crisis if there is a fullscale emergency that demands capabilities that CREST is not able to deliver.

In successful amalgamation campaigns elsewhere, a key element is a crisis that cannot be resolved by the existing local governments. Supporters of integration need to find a way of fixing CREST and the process needs to be transparent so that the actions of the key stakeholders are visible to all of us.

Jim McDavid is co-director of the Local Government Institute at the University of Victoria’s School of Public Administration.

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#52 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 03:39 PM

Thanks for posting this, Derf! I only skimmed it since I'm inbetween tasks, but I want to read a bit more closely later. A couple of assumptions jump out at me, but maybe more later.

In the meantime, there was another article on this issue in today's T-C, [url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/capital_van_isl/story.html?id=3fe0aef6-2d97-4fb9-a33d-113da086bc58:d7815]Integrate police or I will, warns solicitor general[/url:d7815]. Says Les:

"I can attempt to bring them together, but if they have decided between them that there isn't a meeting of the minds, and nothing will persuade either one of any solution, then I guess they will by default defer that decision to me," Les said in an interview yesterday.

"And we're not going to fool around with this forever."

(...snip...)

Les now finds himself caught in the political crossfire and under increasing attack for what some call his lack of leadership on the issue. He insisted he is prepared to make decisions and provide leadership. He said he wants to see police integrate their major-crime departments (to examine such offences as homicides) and dispatch services.

There are three RCMP detachments and four municipal police forces from Sidney to Sooke.

Les again refused to set a deadline for the mayors to act, saying yesterday it was not helpful to begin "drawing lines in the sand."

(...snip...)

...he refused to create an independent task force to explore amalgamating the police.

Lowe said he simply wouldn't accept Les's decision. Esquimalt Coun. Basil Bolton called it a "cop-out."

The province rejected the task-force idea because it would simply be repeating a similar task force which failed in 2003, said Les.

(...snip...)

...Les said the government views that failed task force as a sign amalgamation isn't a compelling case and integration is the preferred option.


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#53 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 09:47 PM

Some comments on that editorial by Jim McDavid:

When Solicitor General John Les commented at the Union of B.C. Municipalities convention that he wanted to see progress around the integration of police services in the Victoria region, many interpreted him to be saying that amalgamation was an option.

McDavid's first argument: that politicians who discussed amalgamation, on the basis on Les's comments, were wrong and had misinterpretated the smoke signals. Their bad! From this follow their subsequent sins.

The mayors of Victoria and Esquimalt (...) pointed to the success of the City of Victoria in providing all police services to Esquimalt and suggested that combining all departments could yield more benefits.


Pro-amalgamation proponents (the mayors of Victoria & Esquimalt) compounded the errors of their ways by pointing to services in Esquimalt.

At the same time, the failings of the CREST emergency communications system were highlighted.


McDavid now brings in CREST's failures as poster child for the pro-amalgamation/ integration-isn't-enough politicos. I.e., under McDavid's reasoning, pointing out CREST's failings is a political ploy on the part of the mayors, not just an objective technical reality. (Tell that to the cops whose radios fail.)

But in all this, the voice of the business community in Esquimalt stands out.


If CREST is just a political tussle, the Esquimalt business community is the real, to-be-believed counterpunch. By leaning on the business community's complaint, the author absolves himself of political ideological leanings, because we all know that business isn't ideological, but good, rational, neutral.

In amalgamations that have occurred elsewhere in Canada and the U.S., the local business community is strongly in favour of amalgamating local governments and is a leader in amalgamation campaigns.


However, he has to point out that other business communities benefited from amalgamation, even though he then suggests that our case might be different.

Next, we get a switch-and-bait, from amalgamation issues to "community policing" issues. These are two different issues, but the author now conflates them:

Let us look at the Esquimalt situation more closely. A recent article suggested that the Victoria Police Department should implement a community-oriented policing model which would see police officers based in Esquimalt responding to the community’s needs.


He then goes on to describe a specific -- and not successful -- model of one type of "community policing," namely the little "stations" that were, quite frankly, utterly opaque to the average person who keeps cops at arms' length: in Fairfield, for eg., we had a "community policing" station at Cook and May (on the E. side of Cook, just S. of May):

The idea of community policing is not new. In fact the Victoria Police Department implemented a community policing program in 1987. Five community police stations were situated in Victoria’s neighbourhoods, with uniformed officers there during the daytime.


If "community policing" in Fairfield had meant a single cop on duty patrol via bike or on foot, that would have meant something to me. But that little "station" meant absolutely nothing: why would I enter it? To this day, I have no idea what they did in there all day long, nor who they were meant to serve. Just because one type of community policing is a dud doesn't mean you throw the whole concept out:

"...there during the daytime" -- meaning what? Drinking tea? Did we (in the community) ever SEE them at work? No, of course not. So is it a surprise that we (in the community) couldn't figure out what the heck they did all the live long day?

Although implemented with high expectations, the program did not survive. A key reason had to do with where it was situated within the Victoria Police Department.


I alight once again on a favourite pet peeve: the passive voice. "Although implemented with high expectations" -- whose? "A key reason had to do with..." The subject-less passive voice gets a key. Great.

Regardless of where any reader stands on amalgamation, said reader has to admit that McDavid is using shoddy argumentation to advance his case. In the next sentence he goes on to argue that:

police services, even where there is an initial commitment to maintaining levels of services to outlying areas, are eventually centralized.



Wait a second: he just argued that Esquimalt isn't getting service, but now he's talking about outlying areas. Am I to believe that Esquimalt is an outlying area, as Metchosin is? Come off it! Esquimalt is practically the core -- as is Vic West, and Quadra Village, and North Park, and Fernwood, Rockland, Fairfield, Jubilee, James Bay. So who is this "outlying area"? Saanich? Do they, however, have the kinds of problems that Esquimalt, JB, etc. etc. have? What do the "outlying" areas suddenly have to do with this?

...centralization does not result in the same levels of community-sensitive, patrolbased services, particularly to those areas outside of the downtown core.


I don't understand this at all. It presupposes that we already have "community-sensitive" (whatever that means), patrolbased services throughout Victoria. I thought part of the problem is that we don't.
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#54 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 10:11 PM

A related article on the issue of community policing, homelessness, and the eating up of police resources if social issues like homelessness are left to the police to <kof> "solve": [url=http://www.downtownjournal.com/articles/2006/12/06/homeless/news07.txt:87ad8]Partnering with Police[/url:87ad8]. This is part of a series in the Minneapolis-based [url=http://www.downtownjournal.com/homeless/:87ad8]Downtown Journal[/url:87ad8].
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#55 Rorschach

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 06:34 AM

I'm still thinking the main issue of all this is the cost of police services. If there was just one command structure and just one bureaucracy instead of several of each, the areas could all be served at the same or greater level and by the same people as now with a lot of cost savings.

The extra command structures can come out from their desks and exalted positions of "leadership" and get in the field backing up line officers and making decisions in tactical situations. To me, this is the best way to deploy the personnel available as long as the [url=http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/SUBOPTIM.html:e1bf4]problem of suboptimization[/url:e1bf4] is accounted for in the model.

#56 Holden West

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 11:19 AM

Too much talking! Not enough action! Amalgamate police NOW!

=====

Spread police costs fairly

Times Colonist

Saturday, March 31, 2007

Esquimalt's hand-wringing over its policing bill highlights how unfairly policing costs are shared in the capital region.

The combined Victoria-Esquimalt department, with a budget last year of $33.2 million, deals with most of the region's crime-related troubles.

People from all over the region congregate in Victoria's downtown for work and fun. That means Victoria's census population (78,057) is far from a true reflection of how many people are typically within its boundaries.

Downtown Victoria also gets more than its share of drunken trouble.

This has forced an unfairly high proportion of policing costs on Victoria.

A provincial government study last year pegged Victoria's per capita policing costs at $329, highest in the province.

By contrast, it was $194 for Oak Bay, $181 for Central Saanich, and $176 for Saanich.

All other Greater Victoria municipalities are below $160 per capita.


Esquimalt is particularly unhappy because it has had to join Victoria in footing the regional policing bill. The province forced the Victoria and Esquimalt departments to merge in 2003.

Under the terms of the merger, Esquimalt pays 14 per cent of the combined department's bills.

Complicated investigations and growing demands for policing have boosted costs, so the department is asking for more money.

Other Greater Victoria municipalities, naturally, are happy to leave the costs with Victoria, which has the lion's share of the property tax base as well.

It would make no financial sense for the other municipalities to volunteer to pay millions of extra dollars when no one is making them do so.

One solution? The provincial government could either force other municipalities to contribute to Victoria's police budget, or form a single regional police force.

The other municipalities would resist. They would scream and yell. But it would be the fair thing to do.

© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007
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#57 Baro

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 11:44 AM

In situations like greater victoria, amalgamation of pretty much anything will only come when forced by clearer minds from above.
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#58 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 02:35 PM

In situations like greater victoria, amalgamation of pretty much anything will only come when forced by clearer minds from above.


The province ought to make it mandatory to run a referendum on it at the next municipal election. 3 municipalities, Saanich (peninsula), core and wescom.

Where there is a majority in favour in any one of the three, that area amalgamates within three years.
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#59 rjag

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 06:33 AM

The Vict. Chamber is hosting VPD Chief Battershill on April 13 at 7:30 a.m. to discuss the recent integration of services.

This should be fairly enlightening as he also sat as city manager for 6+ months so will have a unique insight into this.

#60 Mike K.

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 01:09 PM

South Island police join forces
Co-operative crime squad will target career crooks from Sooke to Sidney


BY ROB SHAW Times Colonist staff

A new regional crime squad to be unveiled today is designed to crack down on the most active street crooks, who commit everything from break and enters to car thefts.

The team, a co-operative effort by south Island police departments, will monitor crime trends, conduct surveillance and target what they call career criminals, from Sooke to Sidney. Police say street-level property crime, such as home robberies and petty theft, is a chronic and increasing problem that hasn’t so far been the focus of a co-operative effort.

The province will announce financial support for the crime squad at a press conference this morning, B.C. Solicitor General John Les said yesterday. The squad is expected to cost about $800,000 a year, not including start-up equipment.

“What we achieve with this model is that we have the neighbourhood policing that every community likes to have, and at the same time we have specialized policing units that keep the larger region safe,” said Les.

“We get a more integrated approach to dealing with the prolific offenders who don’t particularly care whether they are acting out in Victoria tonight, Saanich tomorrow or Oak Bay the next day.”

The crime team will largely work behind the scenes, say police. If your car or house is broken into, you will still report the incident to your local police department. But your information may flow to the new crime squad, where it will be analyzed for trends, such as sprees by known offenders just released from jail.

Mayors and police departments have been building the team since December, when Les ordered them to start co-operating or face forced amalgamation.

Saanich Mayor Frank Leonard credited the minister’s ultimatum with breaking a long string of failed attempts to create a Greater Victoria integrated crime squad. “I think we can really reduce crime with this unit,” said Leonard.

The team should be up and running by the fall, said Saanich police Insp. John Charlton, credited as the main architect of the unit.

Initially, the team will have 10 people — seven police officers from around the region, a commanding officer (likely a staff sergeant), a civilian office worker and a full-time crime analyst to crunch statistics and identify prolific criminals and troubled neighbourhoods.

They’ll be directed by a joint-management team, including representatives of local police departments and the RCMP, which then reports to area police chiefs and police boards, said Charlton.

Phasing in the squad will take three years and 17 members should eventually operate in two teams, said Charlton. Where the teams will be based has yet to be decided, he said.

Costs of the squad will be shared through a formula based on the distribution of police officers in the Capital Regional District, said Charlton.

Integrated units already link capital region police departments in such areas as dive teams, road safety and emergency tactical response. The RCMP also runs national units for organized crime and child exploitation.

But Victoria police Insp. Clark Russell, who also helped create the unit, said so far, property crime hasn’t received enough attention.

“The unit will have a strong capability to do surveillance. All we need to know is where the guy is. We set up and we follow him, and in the perfect world, he’ll commit a crime when we’re watching him.”

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