972 replies to this topic

[Victoria Watcher]

Gary Bettman does not run the league.

[AllseeingEye]

Yeah have to remember Bettman works essentially for the team owners and its the longest-tenured, deep deep pocket owners (especially) who wield true influence and power within the NHL.

 

So the likes of Jeremy Jacobs (Boston) the Pegula family (Buffalo) Tom Dundon (Carolina - a Texas multi-multi billionaire), the Wirtz family (Chicago), the Kroenke family (Denver), Larry Tannenbaum  of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment (Toronto) etc are the real power brokers of the league. Bettman is just the voice and public face of that group.

[Jacques Cadé]

^ The majority of owners should also be pissed that four Sun Belt teams are playing for the Stanley Cup. While Las Vegas and Dallas are relatively wealthy (#16 and #18 in $ value, according to Forbes), Carolina and Florida are among the financially worst teams in the league (#29 and #31). Some owners must be wondering: Why do these loser franchises get a shot at the big prize? (Another chart comparing the relative income of NHL teams is here.)

 

The TV viewership for the semis and final this year is likely to be terrible. (Will CBC even carry the remaining games?) Personally, I hope it's so bad that advertisers pull out, the league panics, and it forces the closure or relocation of franchises like Carolina and Florida to reduce the chances of similar matchups in the future. But I suspect even record-low TV ratings will have no substantial effect: the owners know hockey fans are suckers, and we will watch again next winter.

[Victoria Watcher]

^ The majority of owners should also be pissed that four Sun Belt teams are playing for the Stanley Cup. While Las Vegas and Dallas are relatively wealthy (#16 and #18 in $ value, according to Forbes), Carolina and Florida are among the financially worst teams in the league (#29 and #31). Some owners must be wondering: Why do these loser franchises get a shot at the big prize? (Another chart comparing the relative income of NHL teams is here.)

 

The TV viewership for the semis and final this year is likely to be terrible. (Will CBC even carry the remaining games?) Personally, I hope it's so bad that advertisers pull out, the league panics, and it forces the closure or relocation of franchises like Carolina and Florida to reduce the chances of similar matchups in the future. But I suspect even record-low TV ratings will have no substantial effect: the owners know hockey fans are suckers, and we will watch again next winter.

 

The other owners all get/got CASH when they grant expansion.  Free cash.

 

On the other hand if they let a failing one move into their market, they can be hurt.

 

 

 

The NHL board of governors unanimously approved a proposal from a group, led by David Bonderman, to bring an expansion franchise to Seattle in December 2018. The franchise's expansion fee of $650 million was distributed in equal shares to 30 of the 31 franchises, excluding the Vegas Golden Knights. 

 

https://bleacherrepo...s-nhl-franchise

 

 

 

650/30 = $21.6 million per team.  

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 16 May 2023 - 09:25 AM.

[FogPub]

The voters of Tempe Arizona just sank the proposed new arena there, meaning the Coyotes are - once again - a strong candidate for relocation.

[Mike K.]

Good.

 

Building these arenas on the public dime is so daft.

[Victoria Watcher]

We built ours. 100% our cost. Would you rather we let the private sector build it?

[Mike K.]

We don't have to let them, they can just go ahead and do it.

[AllseeingEye]

Good.

 

Building these arenas on the public dime is so daft.

 

Yup and yet the practice is very common in sports-mad - especially pro-sports-mad AND especially pro football sports-mad 'Murrica.

 

BILLIONS in public funds are routinely spent on particularly shiny new NFL stadiums for a variety of reasons, political as well as what one US economist called 'the celebrity effect'. According to one study I briefly looked at since 2000 nineteen new NFL stadiums have been constructed and only three have not had any public funding.

 

The ultimate example in this extraordinary phenomenon is probably the Buffalo Bills, who are are getting a new stadium in upstate New York.

 

The state's taxpayers are picking up most of the $1.4 billion-dollar tab. The actual direct amount of the taxpayer share is over $850 of that tab in addition to $280 million for 'maintenance and improvements'. Meaning the public is paying for over $1 billion of the total cost. Which led some state lawmakers naturally to ask why Bills owners Terry and Kim Pegula, who have an estimated net worth of $5.8 billion USD, couldn't just foot the bill themselves. Good question.

 

That celebrity effect is one argument to be sure; also no politician in the Excitable States wants to be "that" guy or woman who allows a pro sport team to slip away - especially an NFL team - because they dug in their heels.

[Mike K.]

It’s all so stupid.

[Victoria Watcher]

Most arenas and stadiums do not exclusively host the big sports team though.

If you are in Jacksonville, do you want all the Swifties to have to go to Tampa for the concert, taking all their money?

We continue to pour taxpayer money into performance theatres that never turn a profit.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 20 May 2023 - 08:10 AM.

[AllseeingEye]

No argument from me Mike. However its also colossally huge business re football in particular. There is no remote equivalent in this country. We think because we invented the game and historically its 'embedded' in our culture that hockey in Canada is its own 'religion' and that the love bordering on fanaticism Canadians have for the game has no parallel elsewhere. Nuts.

 

Spend time in the US - and I don't mean California or New York - but the heartland of Murrica and you will see fanaticism in terms of the support for American football that makes Canadians' passion for hockey pale by comparison. go to Nebraska or Oklahoma or Ohio or Texas and if nothing else strikes you about the sporting culture football is guaranteed to ***** slap you across the chops, and leave you begging for more. The Texas high school football championship is played before 40,000 fans in a stadium custom built (and paid for by public funds) for that purpose. CFL teams in Canada can only drool and dream of those attendance numbers; they would die for such support. For high school kids.....

 

I spent quite a bit of time in Nebraska on business at one point about 20 years ago. Think hockey in the Canadian prairies or in rural Canada is ingrained in the culture? Pales into insignificance compared to football in the American heartland.

 

Lincoln NB is ground zero for the U of Nebraska and its beloved U of N Cornhusker football team. EVERYONE in the state buys and wears Cornhusker sporting gear and apparel. Everyone. The amount of money involved is staggering and this is but one university in a massive national system of similar institutions. I worked out in a 40,000 s/f gym in Omaha (a converted Safeway). There were perhaps 300 people there at the time. Literally everyone, except me, was wearing Cornhusker sweats, socks, tee shirts, tanks tops, even custom sneakers with the famous stylized "N" stencilled on them. Alumni up to 70 and even 80 years old proudly regaled me with their 'favourite play in Cornhusker football history'.  And naturally all of them were huge life long financial supporters of their favourite university....

 

US college alumni are an entire $$$$$ industry unto themselves especially as related to their lifelong commitment to donate vast sums of cash to their alma mater. In Canada we have nothing close to an equivalent. Virtually no one here mentions or cares about being an 'alumni' regardless where they went for higher education; and no Canadian university can call on an literal army of thousands of alumni to raise and\/or donate literally millions and millions and millions of dollars to their coffers. But the U of N can, as can virtually all NCAA Division 1 American universities and colleges. Michigan, Ohio State, Georgia, Alabama, USC, Florida, Texas and dozens of other major universities and colleges have the same and in most cases more $ resources than does Nebraska. Much more.

 

Once you immerse yourself into that culture or are even superficially exposed to it for a finite time - and whether you agree with it or not is beside the point - you quickly realize what an overwhelming money making machine the system truly is; and unsurprisingly with both good and very definitely bad outcomes.

 

Moreover that college system - the passion, fanaticism and absolutely above all the money - simply feeds the pro (NFL) game. All that money of course has and does hold the potential for corruption and influence in both the academic and especially political worlds and there is ample evidence for such and there have historically been many public examples of both occurring and on a very large scale.  Regardless pro football especially is such a mammoth business in the US today, carrying with it such power - political power above all - and prestige, it would be a very brave US politician to deny the requisite (public) funding for the facilities for these organizations. 

Edited by AllseeingEye, 20 May 2023 - 08:53 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Yes indeed. Well said ASE.

Now some of these NIL (name, image, likeness) contracts the athletes have are making some of them millions even before they leave university. And even in some sports with no pro level, like gymnastics if you are an attractive female.

See:

https://www.thestree...aluation metric.


LSU Gymnast Olivia Dunne has an NIL earning potential of $3.5 million per year, leading all female collegiate athletes ahead of tomorrow’s NCAA Women’s Gymnastics Final.

Dunne boasts the third highest earning potential among all high school and college athletes, according to On3’s NIL Valuation metric. She trails only the relatives of sporting legends: Bronny James, son of LeBron James, and Arch Manning, nephew of Peyton and Eli Manning. The two are valued at $7.2 million and $3.8 million, respectively.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 20 May 2023 - 09:17 AM.

[Mike K.]

I see no reason why the main tenant of a facility can’t be its owner, then lease out the space to Swifties.

The taxpayer has no busiess in the entertainment industry any more than the car or clothing industries.

[Victoria Watcher]

Should local government be in the performing arts centre business?

Maybe the taxpayer should not be in the recreation centre or park business either.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 May 2023 - 07:39 AM.

[Mike K.]

No, it shouldn’t be. None of those things should be managed by government.

Parks are a little different, I think we can agree a green space serves a broader social purpose. But what percentage of the population ever steps foot into an arena? 5%, at best?

It seems ridiculous to be funding these facilities, as we watch our property taxes rise, and rise and rise.

[Victoria Watcher]

So let’s close / sell the Macpherson. Why are we holding on to it at such a loss?

According to that Rifflandia thread, they have 3x more volunteers than they need.

Why we running two theatres with all union labour?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 May 2023 - 08:16 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

[Mike K.]

See how ridiculous it all is? A team of Canadian players. Plays for Vegas, and it’s “Vegas” that won, not the communities that taught the players and trained them.

This is why professional, team-based and location-specific sports is an empty void of meaninglessness.

[lanforod]

Shrug. Goes both ways. If Vancouver had won in 2011, Sweden would have been celebrating too.