31 replies to this topic

[Sparky]

Can anyone shed more light on the hierarchy of the provincial NDP and how it relates to Mayor Fortin and councillor Alto?

Allow me to start the ball rolling and then we may need another thread for this topic.

The NDP have been involved in local politics since they called themselves CCF. They have been active in municipal politics, as well as school board politics. The NDP have a dedicated, efficient, and organized team of volunteers that are trained proffesionals at "getting out the vote."

There appears to be a mind set of using these local arenas to advance the skill set of their potential candidates. Elizabeth Cull is a good example of starting out as a School District #61 trustee and ending up as British Columbia's first female finance minister.

There is also a trend of late to promote well known provincial political figures for local government positions. Gregor Robertson the mayor of Vancouver is a good example of this. David Cubberly, a past NDP MLA and past Saanich councilor has announced his bid for mayor of Saanich this November.

This tight knit group of political minds are capable of taking control of whatever piece of democracy they set their sights on, especially when they receive the backing of the Victoria Labour Council.

How else could a relatively unknown candidate from Saanich win out over better known candidates in a Victoria by election?

If I haven't bored you enough as yet, read the article in the link below and make special note of the comment that Fortin makes when he refers to Alto as bringing a "strong independant voice" to the table.

Perhaps someone who belongs to the NDP party could enlighten us as to how this "independant" ideology works in this setting.

http://www.vancouver...1413/story.html

[Hotel Mike]

You're right Sparky. The NDP are amazing at getting their supporters out to work on campaigns, and to vote for their candidates. And yes, Alto, Fortin, Cubberley, et al. are all in the same camp.

I'm not sure you can give full credit to the NDP apparatus for the Alto win though. Had there been a positive alternative, the vote may have gone differently. Hobbis didn't cut it, and we're better off not having him on Council. Glad to see he has learned his lesson and decided not to run this time.

[Mike K.]

Sparky, thanks for that.

In every election I get the sense that the "machine" draws out voters who are told who to vote for and these individuals have absolutely no interest in knowing anything about the candidates. Several acquaintances I know couldn't tell you a smidgen of information about a candidate they "support," only that they "support" him or her because their union memorandum or another NDP-affiliated organization stood behind several individuals.

I recall from the 2005 election how unethical, at least in my opinion, the campaigning seemed to be by NDP some supporters. Flyers were delivered to homes and distributed by BC Transit drivers in uniform downtown stating that if voters support public transit expansion, they must vote for only the candidates on the flyer. I was stopped by one driver handing out the pamphlets and looking over the list I recognized that only NDP candidates made the cut. I asked why other candidates whom I knew were 100% behind transit were not listed and the drivers smile faded, she turned and walked away from me. This was on the day of the election.

Later I learned that BC Transit discourages drivers from using their work attire to further political agendas (as least this is what I was told -- can anyone verify?). You can bet that a driver standing around a busy bus stop handing out "support transit -- support these candidates" flyers made an impact.

NDP politicos on Victoria council are:
Dean Fortin
Pam Madoff
Lynn Hunter
Marianne Alto (Sonya Chandler -- allied herself with NDP candidates shortly after getting elected as "green" candidate -- replaced by Alto)
John Luton(?)

[Mike K.]

Does anyone know if John Luton is affiliated in some capacity with the NDP? In other words, does the Victoria Civic Electors endorse him?

[Rob Randall]

^There really isn't a VCE anymore and I don't think Luton has the same ties to the NDP that Fortin and Hunter have. However, Luton was part of the last-minute "super slate" of candidates in 2008 that also included Chandler and Lucas along with Madoff, Fortin and Hunter.

The municipal wing of the Green party came undone, with Chandler and Lucas distancing themselves from it.

[VicHockeyFan]

The NDP machine does well beacuse their entire voter block is a bunch of government workers that otherwise would never be able to get a real job.

Does anyone on our current council, other than Young, have a real job?

[Mike K.]

Rob, you're absolutely right. The VCE has been disbanded. Is there a replacement slate in the works?

Does anyone on our current council, other than Young, have a real job?

Chris Coleman has some ties to Milestone's, does he not? Or is he no longer worker for/with the restaurant?

The NDP machine does well beacuse their entire voter block is a bunch of government workers...

Not to mention unions endorse NDP-affiliated candidates on voting materials distributed among unionized workers.

[Barra]

Yes, the machine is quite effective. When I ran for Victoria council 28 (?) yrs ago and was active in the party I got a lot of support - members lists were available and lots of volunteers. When I ran more recently I chose not to ask for Victoria Labour Council endorsement, and during the campaign I learned of the (then) NDP/Green slate and I knew that I might as well just walk away - I couldn't compete with the financial and volunteer resources they had access to. So some relatively unknown people got elected, and independents who had been working in the trenches (community organizations) were frozen out.

[Mike K.]

Barra, would you know if the NDP candidates/Victoria Labour Council receives financial support from unions or publicly-funded organizations?

[Bernard]

Chris Coleman still works as a marketing consultant type but no longer for Milestone's

[Rob Randall]

Realistically, the only job you can have while being Councillor is some sort of part-time consulting where you set your own hours. Alan Lowe could do some architecture due to the nature of the job.

[Linear Thinker]

The NDP machine does well beacuse their entire voter block is a bunch of government workers that otherwise would never be able to get a real job.

Does anyone on our current council, other than Young, have a real job?

Off topic...
I eagerly await your post that defines what a "real" job is....

[VicHockeyFan]

Off topic...
I eagerly await your post that defines what a "real" job is....

The kind of job that adds money to the treasury in taxes and fees or royalties, not takes from it.

Every single government worker is a net drain on the rest of us that pay taxes. Sadly, we are a society that is too rapidly becoming one where one third of us work and pay taxes, another third works directly for government, and a further third is reliant on government handouts. Only the first third are pulling their weight. The rest are leeches.

[Baro]

Would love to see some stats to back that up. Only a 1/3 of people are actually producing anything of worth?? A full third on government assistance?

[http]

The kind of job that adds money to the treasury in taxes and fees or royalties, not takes from it.

Every single government worker is a net drain on the rest of us that pay taxes. Sadly, we are a society that is too rapidly becoming one where one third of us work and pay taxes, another third works directly for government, and a further third is reliant on government handouts. Only the first third are pulling their weight. The rest are leeches.

Government workers actually do things. That they aren't buiilding widgets or bringing you food doesn't make them a drain.

Labour is not an expense. Expertise is not an expense.

[VicHockeyFan]

Would love to see some stats to back that up. Only a 1/3 of people are actually producing anything of worth?? A full third on government assistance?

Add all three or four levels of government, plus health care and education that is fully taxpayer financed, and you'll find it is very close to 33%, if not over.

[Baro]

If health care and education aren't real jobs then I don't know what is. I'd love more of my taxes to go there. I'll take a few more "leech" nurses and teachers over "real jobs" like marketers and investment bankers in society any day.

[Lorenzo]

If health care and education aren't real jobs then I don't know what is. I'd love more of my taxes to go there. I'll take a few more "leech" nurses and teachers over "real jobs" like marketers and investment bankers in society any day.

The world needs more stock speculators, land flippers, MBA's, CEO's.

[jklymak]

Interesting debate, that probably needs its own thread - but I'll point out that a moderator started the digression...

However, looking at it objectively, what would the big deal be if 1% of people had "real jobs" and "supported" the rest to do other useful things for society (build roads, educate our kids, run the hospitals), if the overall standard of living stayed the same? If society decides that is the best way to divide labour, then why is that automatically "bad"?

How is working in the beer-shilling industry (as a random example) more of a "real job" than working at the DMV processing drivers licenses? Neither actually produces anything, but both are services people want.

[rjag]

Check Stats Canada, approx 3 million public service workers through all levels of government....thats nearly 7% of our population and 15% of working population.

Every public sector job derives its income from the public teat also called tax, this can be described as fees, charges, taxes, royalties or penalties.