9623 replies to this topic

[Victoria Watcher]

A sudden surge in passenger numbers could overwhelm the system requiring expensive capital expenditures to meet the new usage demands.

 

they will need to significantly increase (double?) the bus fleet and operational budget.  how much would it cost all in one go to double our fleet?

 

260 buses.

 

The cost for one 60′ bus will cost the city $861,000 a piece while a 40′ bus costs just $553,000. 

 

 

~ $150 million.

 

source 2018 numbers

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 02 May 2019 - 02:10 PM.

[DustMagnet]

I think the point a lot of people have tried to make about so-called "free" transit is that is has the potential to be a victim of its own success. A sudden surge in passenger numbers could overwhelm the system requiring expensive capital expenditures to meet the new usage demands.

People keep saying this but you don't have to increase capacity and service - if there are too many people using it then the service will become less desirable, the people who don't need to put up with that will stop using it and an equilibrium will be found.

Just think if there were no toll roads around here, people would drive so much we would have to expand the road system!

If you keep the transit expansion on the same schedule as the road infrastructure schedule (i.e. never enough, never soon enough) then it should be manageable.  Of course, to look like the road schedule the priority would be more bike racks on the buses...

[Cats4Hire]

are frequent service changes such a terrible thing now when we rely so little on paper schedules?

you'd be surprised how many people I watch pick up the booklet at the front on the first few days of a service change. Regularly there aren't any left when I'm heading home in the afternoon. I can't think of any real reason to grab one other than the schedule. 

[sdwright.vic]

^I am so confused? Are you for or against free busses? You seem to be presenting both sides of the argument?

[vortoozo]

they will need to significantly increase (double?) the bus fleet and operational budget.  how much would it cost all in one go to double our fleet?

 

260 buses.

 

 

~ $150 million.

 

source 2018 numbers

 

Based on what?

If busses don't have to collect fares, the existing fleet becomes more efficient. Dwell time at stops is significantly reduced since everyone can just walk on both front and rear doors, so it takes less time for each bus to complete the route.

[Nparker]

...If buses don't have to collect fares, the existing fleet becomes more efficient...

More efficient perhaps, but the existing fleet won't become larger to accommodate the purported increase in passengers without spending a lot of additional money.

[vortoozo]

The CIA claims France is a 1st World country though: https://qz.com/14428...uropean-cities/

 

Uh oh.
 

 

One just has to look within a few hours of Victoria... Tofino also offers fare-free transit. It's seasonal, but works quite well. Previously there was a charge and it was dropped a couple years ago.

[Victoria Watcher]

People keep saying this but you don't have to increase capacity and service - if there are too many people using it then the service will become less desirable, the people who don't need to put up with that will stop using it and an equilibrium will be found.

 

you'd have thousands of people passed up every single day.   nobody would want that.

[Victoria Watcher]

One just has to look within a few hours of Victoria... Tofino also offers fare-free transit. It's seasonal, but works quite well. Previously there was a charge and it was dropped a couple years ago.

 

i hope that's a joke.  

 

we have 260 buses.  tofino has one 21-seat bus that runs hourly from 9am to 4pm.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 02 May 2019 - 02:32 PM.

[vortoozo]

More efficient perhaps, but the existing fleet won't become larger to accommodate the purported increase in passengers without spending a lot of additional money.

 

Right, but if it's more efficient, service levels can increase without the need for additional drivers and equipment.

 

Say the average #6 bus takes half an hour to complete it's route. If that's reduced to 25 minutes because the bus spends about 5 minutes waiting for people to get on and pay their fares, then a single bus and driver can do a round trip in 50 minutes instead of an hour. That same bus could do 7 round trips instead of 6 in a 6 hour period. Keeping the same number of busses on the road, that means increased frequency and capacity.

[Victoria Watcher]

how can a free bus be more efficient?  it'll take passengers on increasingly smaller trips.  like 3 stops.  it'll need to stop at every single stop.

[vortoozo]

i hope that's a joke.  

 

we have 260 buses.  tofino has one 21-seat bus that runs hourly from 9am to 4pm.

 

Why would it be a joke? You claimed that no first world country offered fare free transit.

Another poster provided examples of that not being the case in Europe. And I shared a transit system that I knew of in Canada that had already made that transition.

[vortoozo]

how can a free bus be more efficient?  it'll take passengers on increasingly smaller trips.  like 3 stops.  it'll need to stop at every single stop.

 

Have you taken the #6? It already does!

[Victoria Watcher]

Why would it be a joke? You claimed that no first world country offered fare free transit.

Another poster provided examples of that not being the case in Europe. And I shared a transit system that I knew of in Canada that had already made that transition.

 

and i'm aware of the former langford trolley.  

 

i meant on a similar-sized system or network.  

[Victoria Watcher]

Have you taken the #6? It already does!

 

as i mentioned yesterday.  it's ridiculous how close together the stops are.

[vortoozo]

and i'm aware of the former langford trolley.  

 

i meant on a similar-sized system or network.  

 

It makes sense to test the waters with the smaller systems, though.

[Nparker]

Right, but if it's more efficient, service levels can increase without the need for additional drivers and equipment...

To a very limited extent. If passenger numbers doubled - which I am sure is the goal of a so-called "free" system - efficiencies are not going to increase capacity anywhere near enough. 

[Victoria Watcher]

It makes sense to test the waters with the smaller systems, though.

 

how about just give us uber finally.  

 

fine then run the #6 for free for 6 months see what happens.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 02 May 2019 - 02:57 PM.

[Nparker]

...run the #6 for free for 6 months see what happens.

That'd be interesting.

[Victoria Watcher]

heck run the #50 for free until the interchange at mckenzie is complete. take some cars off the crowded road.

 

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