9614 replies to this topic

[Greg]

This thread is giving me a headache. CoV wants to make buses "free" because they think it will lead to more people riding the bus. And some people are vehemently arguing that this is a terrible idea because it will lead to more people riding the bus. Am I following this about right?

[Mike K.]

UVic students experience the fallicy of a pre-paid pass: transit has no motivation to expand service, as the annual financial commitment is capped and additional frequency/routes generate no additional revenues.

Back when I was at school transit access to UVic was awful despite so many actual buses headed to and from. Busses were extremely full during peak periods and pass-ups were standard. One major issue were students who rode the bus 2-3 stops from campus, but because it was “free” they would ride rather than walk. This meant students who were heading into town were often passed up.

The situation became so stupid that I decided to drive and pay for parking in the last three years of my five year stint at UVic.

[Victoria Watcher]

This thread is giving me a headache. CoV wants to make buses "free" because they think it will lead to more people riding the bus. And some people are vehemently arguing that this is a terrible idea because it will lead to more people riding the bus. Am I following this about right?

 

more people riding the bus is fine.  especially if they used cars before.  if they walked before or skipped the trip altogether before it's bad. 

 

raising property taxes substantially to pay for it is bad.  and not planning or even considering the crazy effects is bad.

 

have the locals even considered what's going to happen to bus routes going to schools when the kids all ride free soon?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 02 May 2019 - 03:29 PM.

[Nparker]

...CoV wants to make buses "free" because they think it will lead to more people riding the bus. And some people are vehemently arguing that this is a terrible idea because it will lead to more people riding the bus. Am I following this about right?

Significantly increased ridership would cost more than just the lost revenue from the fare box. The capacity of the system would have to be increased. If post-free passenger numbers didn't increase significantly then it would be an exercise in futility as there would still be nearly the same number of cars on the roads.

[Cats4Hire]

UVic students experience the fallicy of a pre-paid pass: transit has no motivation to expand service, as the annual financial commitment is capped and additional frequency/routes generate no additional revenues.

Back when I was at school transit access to UVic was awful despite so many actual buses headed to and from. Busses were extremely full during peak periods and pass-ups were standard. One major issue were students who rode the bus 2-3 stops from campus, but because it was “free” they would ride rather than walk. This meant students who were heading into town were often passed up.

The situation became so stupid that I decided to drive and pay for parking in the last three years of my five year stint at UVic.

Hey they're trying to solve it by making the 11 and 14 go up Foul Bay! (even though the 11 awkwardly turns up Cedar Hill X and enters UVic via Sinclair so who would take that?) Also the third bus going from Dockyard to UVic instead of just boosting service to one of the 3 already existing Mackenzie buses. But yeah that's an issue. The 4 and 9 practically half empty at Hillside Mall (it's even worse when Camosun students get off when that's just 3 stops from Foul Bay or 2 from Lansdowne) so if you can make it there somehow you're golden I guess 

[lanforod]

As I see it, the issue with making it free - ie. Fully taxpayer funded - is somewhat similar to the challenges with our health care system. The system gets abused by those who don't need it that much, not used enough by those who do need it, and there is never enough money

[spanky123]

This thread is giving me a headache. CoV wants to make buses "free" because they think it will lead to more people riding the bus. And some people are vehemently arguing that this is a terrible idea because it will lead to more people riding the bus. Am I following this about right?

 

The City wants to make buses free because they think it will get people out of cars. Others feel that if it is free, it won't get people out of cars but instead encourage those who would normally walk or bike to take the bus.

[BCTransitLTC]

I have not been online for a while here. 

 

Here is my two cents. 

 

1. The City of VIctoria could never make transit free. Not everybody can use transit because not all areas have decent service. Many routes have only hourly service (Peninsula and Langford neighbourhood service, Cordova Bay). Also not every municipality will agree with Helps decision, especially Langford... Also, BC Transit would never increase service enough to make people want to ride the bus, especially in Langford and SIdney. Major routes run very often but there is too much "bus bunching" where buses end up going back to back and then having a huge wait afterwards. 

 

2. The "NextRide" system has major flaws lately. On the older Nova buses, the stop request sign is blocked by the NextRide display. Same goes for the New Flyer buses. I was on a double decker, 9001, and the only stop requested LED upstairs was covered by the NextRide screen. 

Many people have complained about the NextRide being too quiet or too loud. BCT is planning on putting a microphone to automatically adjust volume for that. 

There is a third-party website that is tracking certain buses for now (found it on Reddit), BC Transit's own NextRide page for Victoria is locked,I assume until fall the way things are going... 

 

3. There have been way too many complaints about transit lately. Recently on a Facebook group, Rant & Rave, somebody complained about a bus driver twice. Knowing the driver would lose his job, he quit on the spot. 

[Cats4Hire]

2. The "NextRide" system has major flaws lately. On the older Nova buses, the stop request sign is blocked by the NextRide display. Same goes for the New Flyer buses. I was on a double decker, 9001, and the only stop requested LED upstairs was covered by the NextRide screen. 

 

I think I posted a few pages back now (or maybe just thought of it) and keep meaning to Email BC Transit but I think they should do something to the next stop sign (changing the either text or background to red probably the easiest to understand without just removing the next stop and replacing with "stop requested"). I've noticed people yanking on the wire because they missed the noise and a number of buses don't have any other signs to indicate the requested stop other than the one being blocked. 

[kxl]

2. The "NextRide" system has major flaws lately. On the older Nova buses, the stop request sign is blocked by the NextRide display. Same goes for the New Flyer buses. I was on a double decker, 9001, and the only stop requested LED upstairs was covered by the NextRide screen.
Many people have complained about the NextRide being too quiet or too loud. BCT is planning on putting a microphone to automatically adjust volume for that.
There is a third-party website that is tracking certain buses for now (found it on Reddit), BC Transit's own NextRide page for Victoria is locked,I assume until fall the way things are going...

Was this not an issue for other municipalities where the system is live (Nanaimo, Kelowna)?

[Victoria Watcher]

in Montreal Toronto Calgary etc it’s been running for years. hard to see what the problem is.

[kenmuir]

I've not seen it lately, but when the rollout first started, I thought I remembered the NextRide display changing to or at least flashing a "stop requested" message whenever someone pulled the bell.

[sebberry]

2. The "NextRide" system has major flaws lately. On the older Nova buses, the stop request sign is blocked by the NextRide display. Same goes for the New Flyer buses. I was on a double decker, 9001, and the only stop requested LED upstairs was covered by the NextRide screen. 

 

 

It annoys me when I get stuck behind a bus now - no longer do I have an idea when the bus will stop next.  Trust me, it's helpful.  

[G-Man]

I think that a free pass on the current system would have a miniscule impact on usage. I think if you kept the current fare or even increased it, but made the system work better along key routes usage would increase far far more. Make it <7 minute service on the 6, 30/31, 26/27, and 14. Stop investing in transit to the Westshore and really focus on the urban areas and ridership would really go up.

[Victoria Watcher]

I think that a free pass on the current system would have a miniscule impact on usage. 

 

i can't see how that could ever be the case.

[Midnightly]

I think that a free pass on the current system would have a miniscule impact on usage. I think if you kept the current fare or even increased it, but made the system work better along key routes usage would increase far far more. Make it <7 minute service on the 6, 30/31, 26/27, and 14. Stop investing in transit to the Westshore and really focus on the urban areas and ridership would really go up.

 

 

but if the westshore is going to be paying for it (as part of the whole crd paying for it)... wouldn't they expect equal service compared to other areas (or at least better service then what they currently have, and service to all the new developments that are popping up)

[Cats4Hire]

I'm on empty 30/31s pretty much any time of day outside of peak hours between Uptown and Royal Oak (excluding late-April to July when they continue as a 75). Most people who take that route are just going to Uptown and are only on it because it got there before a 50/70/72. No reason to boost them that much.

[Intercontinental]

does nobody see a danger in having a completely free transit system? demand will skyrocket then so must service to match it. and then again more taxes. i’m all in favour of a $1 fare. but all buses all free all the time in all routes is nuts.

and likely the reason it’s not done anywhere else in the entire 1st world.

Did anyone see the Twitter comment and link on this topic from Jennifer Keesmaat ?
“Fascinating data from multiple cities: free transit rides entice people who would otherwise walk, not people who would otherwise drive. This is often a key argument against kids riding for free: they crowd service when they should really be walking“

[Victoria Watcher]

kids eh.

[G-Man]

i can't see how that could ever be the case.

I don't think there is a pent up demand from those that are poor to ride the bus. So to think that on the current service you would increase ridership, it would have to come from people with money that are currently walking, riding or driving and the current service is not enticing to any of those groups over continuing their current transportation mode.

I know I am not a great example but I have a slightly over 20 minute commute by foot. Theoretically in a place with great transit I could be enticed to take it. But the buses are so few and far between on Cook Street that I would never use it even for free. If it ran every ten minutes I certainly would use it on occasion even if it cost five bucks to get downtown.