55 replies to this topic

[Bernard]

Thanks Sparky, Seems like a good place to hang out

Aaron, you will see there is a forum thread for each candidate running

[aaroninvictoria]

thanks Bernard, I just checked that out... looks great!

[tedward]

Legally it is an electoral organization, philosophically it is different that a political party because it is a set of principles to guide people and not an ideological positioning.

Wow, I totally support much if what I see are the issues of Open Victoria but this sort of word-play is starting to make me angry. You are splitting hairs that separate "principles" from "ideology".

I would describe the platform of a political party as "a set of principles to guide people" in making laws.

Avoiding legal regulation with sophistry is no less reprehensible than holding too many in-camera meetings.

[Bernard]

There is nothing legal in relation to what we are doing, we are just trying to do something different than has been the norm for political parties. I know many people will be cynical or will not see the difference, that is fine, but I clearly see a difference.

Ultimately the decision each person in the election has to make is if want to vote for the candidates not.

Post election the plan is to have Open Victoria around to monitor what the City is doing and point out when they are governing badly.

[Sparky]

To help clarify this, and please correct me if I am wrong Bernard, this group will not have card carrying members of the public that are campaing and supporting their elected (or selected) candidate(s).....but rather these are a group of candidates that perscribe to a list of behaviors that they hope will attract voters at large.

I see a vast difference from a political party.

[Mike K.]

There is nothing legal in relation to what we are doing...

Should this word be edited to illegal, or am I reading your post incorrectly, Bernard?

[Bingo]

Should this word be edited to illegal, or am I reading your post incorrectly, Bernard?

I would like to hear from Ross Crockford on this, as he is listed as Communications Advisor on the Open Victoria site.

[jklymak]

^^ I think Bernard just means Open Victoria is not a legal entity...

Which might pose a problem if one wanted to, say, donate $ to them as a group.

[Bingo]

^^ I think Bernard just means Open Victoria is not a legal entity...

How do you know what he means?

[Bernard]

Sorry, the issue of being a party or not being party on the municipal level is not a legal issue, it is a name issue and a choice on how you organize yourself. Sorry for my lack of clarity, busy day for me.

[tedward]

I see a vast difference from a political party.

And I see none at all. To manage to not see that they are same thing we must throw out 500 years of parliamentary history and adopt principles of Orwellian newspeak.

From Wikipedia:

A political party is a political organization that typically seeks to influence government policy, usually by nominating their own candidates and trying to seat them in political office. Parties participate in electoral campaigns, educational outreach or protest actions. Parties often espouse an expressed ideology or vision bolstered by a written platform with specific goals, forming a coalition among disparate interests.

I thought they were trying to avoid the legal requirements of a political "party" in our system but in looking at the law and their statements they are simply using the legal term "elector organization" instead of "party".

I have given up on anger, now I am just disappointed and sad.

You can call it an elector organization all you like, but then so are the Liberals, New Democrats, Greens and Conservatives. "A rose by any other name" and all that.

[Phil McAvity]

How do you know what he means?

Welcome to one of my biggest pet peeves on the internet-asking someone specific a question and having someone else answer because it's both rude and arrogant.

And I see none at all. To manage to not see that they are same thing we must throw out 500 years of parliamentary history and adopt principles of Orwellian newspeak.

From Wikipedia:
I thought they were trying to avoid the legal requirements of a political "party" in our system but in looking at the law and their statements they are simply using the legal term "elector organization" instead of "party".

I have given up on anger, now I am just disappointed and sad.

You can call it an elector organization all you like, but then so are the Liberals, New Democrats, Greens and Conservatives. "A rose by any other name" and all that.

I think one of the differences is that you can be a member of registered political parties like the Liberals, NDP or Conservatives. I'm pretty sure that Open Victoria doesn't offer memberships.

[Bernard]

Open Victoria will shortly be holding a founding AGM. Open Victoria will now be shifting to being a civic watchdog organization - full form and details of how it will all work has not yet been worked out.

We should know the date of the founding AGM on Friday - when I have it, I will post it here.

[Bingo]

Open Victoria will shortly be holding a founding AGM. Open Victoria will now be shifting to being a civic watchdog organization - full form and details of how it will all work has not yet been worked out.

There has been some good "watchdog" action from the JSB.org group, and from Focus magazine, as well as members of VV that keep issues in the public eye.

Can it be measured how effective any of it has been?

[Bernard]

There has been some good "watchdog" action from the JSB.org group, and from Focus magazine, as well as members of VV that keep issues in the public eye.

Can it be measured how effective any of it has been?

I think the very fact that some of the things have become issues when they were not means it has mattered. The problem has been there has been no group of people focusing on the idea of watching city hall to date.

If we pay attention to all the stuff and collate what else is out there, City Council will have to pay more attention to all the issues.

[Mike K.]

Monday Mag used to have a City Hall Watch column. Mayor Lowe would not talk to the reporter responsible for the column.

[Baro]

I don't blame him, monday mag doesn't even try to be objective or fair. They have some pretty set views and agendas and they simply pick or invent the facts that suit it.

[Mike K.]

I dunno, I found the City Hall coverage was pretty good. A lot of it sounded pretty far out but as we've seen in recent years with Focus Online's (and more recently along with Open Victoria's) FOI requests and subsequent articles, a lot goes on at the municipal HQ that warrants coverage that traditional media is too afraid to touch for the fear that it will lower their advertising windfalls from public coffers.

[Hotel Mike]

The problem with Monday, at least in the past, has been their yellow journalism approach to stories. For example, any time Russ Francis didn't like something the city was doing, his stories would include things like how many homeless people could be fed with the money the city was spending on x. There's no real correlation, but he would slant things to suit his agenda. I can see why Lowe eventually refused to deal with him.

[Bernard]

In part the need for a civic watch dog is needed because the City does not make it easy for anyone to find out anything about what is going on.

If things were open and transparent, the need would not be there in the same.

So far there has been no specifically organized approach to this. This is the role I see for Open Victoria