3483 replies to this topic

[tjv]

Do you not read any of the material supplied in the VB Forms.

 

Rents were not cheap. People could no more afford them at that time than they can afford them now. This is why there is article upon article in the news throughout the last 60 years about a continuing housing crisis. Affordability was at a premium. All of the apartments, whether they were in cheap boxes or not, were too expensive for families and seniors. Sound familiar.

 

The reason he couldn't get the rents required was because the MURBS tax incentives created a vast oversupply by the late 70s and into the early 80s. After that time, though, a time when rent controls were pulled, the vacancy rate went down, down, down... and throughout the last half of the 80s landlords could ask the moon. Again, does that sound familiar.

 

I've already told you my solution. You didn't like anything I had to say. So, I'll say the alternative again. Pull rent caps completely, pull most of the restrictions, and then let's see what transpires. If it's what you say then we would have a developer utopia and supply would be increased beyond imagination.

What are VB Forms?

 

We disagree, I think rents were cheap.  I know when I rented I thought they were very affordable back then compared to today.  None of my friends complained either when I was younger about rents being expensive and affordable.  Did we wish it was cheaper, yes of course, but we wished everything was cheaper including cars, food, etc, etc

 

If you followed my other posts I am a builder as well as a developer.  Running the numbers it makes no sense to me to build rental housing today and that is especially true with the tiny rent increases allowed today.  Have you run the numbers and figured out what you would need to charge to give you a decent return?  Yes its very possible if we pulled all the rent controls and restrictions we could have a developer utopia, but there will be no cheap rentals out there

[N E Body]

What are VB Forms?

 

We disagree, I think rents were cheap.  I know when I rented I thought they were very affordable back then compared to today.  None of my friends complained either when I was younger about rents being expensive and affordable.  Did we wish it was cheaper, yes of course, but we wished everything was cheaper including cars, food, etc, etc

 

If you followed my other posts I am a builder as well as a developer.  Running the numbers it makes no sense to me to build rental housing today and that is especially true with the tiny rent increases allowed today.  Have you run the numbers and figured out what you would need to charge to give you a decent return?  Yes its very possible if we pulled all the rent controls and restrictions we could have a developer utopia, but there will be no cheap rentals out there

 

Well, if you read any of these FORUMS then you'd know that your anecdotal evidence doesn't hold water. Housing in Victoria has always been unaffordable, according to the myriad of news articles provided by one of the other members.

[N E Body]

Loss of tax incentives were the killer of the market at that time. It was probably necessary as the market was becoming overbuilt and rents were pretty cheap. How they went about it was wrong, it should have been a reduction in incentives over a period of 3 years to make a soft landing. Lots of people went bust as a result.
Rent control without a corresponding tax break ensures the property will never be built

 

I agree that loss of tax incentives were part of the problem... a market crash in housing at the same time was the other factor. So, at least we agree that tax incentives are the motivator for building more rental housing.

 

The rental market began to correct itself in the mid 80s, just as the Socreds removed rent caps and restrictions to evicting unwanted tenants. In the late 80s the NDP then put in a 10% cap but allowed landlords to apply for increases above that, and, of the applications received, and I'm going from memory, around 80% of the applications were approved. It stayed this way up until 2004 when the Liberals applied the 2% plus inflation cap.

 

Now, though, the NDP is a day late and a dollar short, meddling with a formula just as we see the market beginning to correct itself... and, as you mention, all that was necessary was a "correct" implementation of tax incentives to boost it even more. Tax incentives only being necessary because the cost of borrowing money is rising. Before money started getting more expensive, developers were, obviously, fine with building purpose built rentals, even with the current caps... as witnessed by the number of rentals built and currently in development.

[tjv]

Well, if you read any of these FORUMS then you'd know that your anecdotal evidence doesn't hold water. Housing in Victoria has always been unaffordable, according to the myriad of news articles provided by one of the other members.

I have thanks, and I disagree based on my personal experience and the experience of my friends.  Now if you were/are making minimum wage I could see that, but show me a market anywhere in North America where you can find affordable housing because I doubt you can

 

Based on your point then if Victoria has always been unaffordable then its hopeless that it will ever be affordable and further discussions and ideas will never correct it

[N E Body]

I have thanks, and I disagree based on my personal experience and the experience of my friends.  Now if you were/are making minimum wage I could see that, but show me a market anywhere in North America where you can find affordable housing because I doubt you can

 

Based on your point then if Victoria has always been unaffordable then its hopeless that it will ever be affordable and further discussions and ideas will never correct it

 

Thank you for finally getting it.

Edited by N E Body, 18 November 2018 - 09:53 AM.

[tjv]

So then we should close this thread because its pointless to talk about it anymore and you might want to consider getting a second job or moving

[N E Body]

Why would I want to get a second job or consider moving?

Edited by N E Body, 18 November 2018 - 10:08 AM.

[N E Body]

We continually talk about the vacancy rate when we talk about affordable housing. Are the two really related?

 

Evidence of their non relation can be seen in Saskatoon. Even with a vacancy rate of over 10%, some figures indicate 14%, there is still need for affordable housing. Makes one ask about the relationship between the two.

[tjv]

I see that if you want affordable housing you have 3 options:

 

1.  make more money/get a second job - lots of jobs out there right now.

2.  move to a cheaper town - I hear Saskatoon is cheap

3.  get a 2 bedroom and get a roommate - think about about it probably cut your rent almost in half!

 

Problem solved!

 

If you want affordable housing, here is one option for those looking $599 for a 1 bedroom!  https://saskatoon.re...1279/index.html

[sdwright.vic]

^It actually says rents are FROM $599 - $875.

I am gonna go with very few if any of the suites being $599.

[lanforod]

If we've had 'affordability' problems with both real estate and rent in Victoria for such a long time, I think there isn't really a problem. Places are still getting sold, places are still getting rented.

 

If you personally can't afford what you're looking for, you either have to change your expectations or change your income.

Changing expectations can mean changing locale, size, adding a roommate, camping with Namigans... (no, don't do that).

[Victoria Watcher]

Those are the findings of the latest data from the 2016 census, which looks at the number of people who live under the same roof, the types of families Canadians are forming and the range of languages they can speak.

 

For the first time in the country's history, the number of one-person households has surpassed all other types of living situations. They accounted for 28.2 per cent of all households last year, more than the percentage of couples with children, couples without children, single-parent families, multiple family households and all other combinations of people living together.

 

https://www.theglobe...rticle35861448/

 

 

that's one reason for pressure on the housing demand.  more people than ever have their own solo place.   single-parent families are also at an all-time high.

 

 

 

In 2016, more than a million Canadian children – about two in every 10 – lived in a single-parent family.

 

 

also:

 

 

 

In 2016, nearly 14 per cent of all Canadians over the age of 15 lived alone, compared with 1.8 per cent in 1951.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 18 November 2018 - 02:26 PM.

[Nparker]

I'd probably choose to live in a cardboard box before I'd share a residence just to save money. Thankfully, I've never have to do either, since I moved out of my parents home many, years ago.

[dasmo]

^^ that’s because you CAN’T fit more than one person in a 400 sqft apartment without a bed which is what we’re building now. A lot of those 70s boxes were also two bedroom.

[tjv]

^It actually says rents are FROM $599 - $875.

I am gonna go with very few if any of the suites being $599.

regardless if there is 1 or 10 in that building there is a 1 bedroom priced at $599 which is a heck of a lot cheaper than here.  I'm sure there are other apartments available in other buildings for the same price

 

I'd probably choose to live in a cardboard box before I'd share a residence just to save money. Thankfully, I've never have to do either, since I moved out of my parents home many, years ago.

Just think about how many people have basement suites in their houses "just to save money".  25%?  do we even know the percentage of houses with basement suites?

[Nparker]

...Just think about how many people have basement suites in their houses "just to save money"...

If that was the only way I could afford to buy a house, I'd likely stick with a condo or townhouse. I have no desire to be anyone's landlord.

[lanforod]

^ Good. You're willing to change your expectations. A lot of people instead just start complaining about affordability because they can't buy a house without utilizing the cash flow of leasing part of the house. Or complain because they can't buy a two bedroom condo without having a roommate. Or complain they can't buy a 1 bedroom condo without upgrading their skills and getting a better job...

 

I have little sympathy for many complainers of 'affordability' here. If you dig a little deeper into their personal choices, most of them can afford things just fine, if they change something relatively minor in their expectations or increase their income.

[sdwright.vic]

^^ that’s because you CAN’T fit more than one person in a 400 sqft apartment without a bed which is what we’re building now. A lot of those 70s boxes were also two bedroom.

I know right? Building one bedrooms the size of studios and studios the size of hotel rooms (small hotel rooms at that).

[N E Body]

^^ that’s because you CAN’T fit more than one person in a 400 sqft apartment without a bed which is what we’re building now. A lot of those 70s boxes were also two bedroom.

 

The developers must have read the 2016 census (above from Victoria Watcher):

 

"For the first time in the country's history, the number of one-person households has surpassed all other types of living situations. They accounted for 28.2 per cent of all households last year, more than the percentage of couples with children, couples without children, single-parent families, multiple family households and all other combinations of people living together."

[Mike K.]

From the statscan release we have the following stats:

 

- In 2016, 17.5% of adults aged 15 and over living in private dwellings lived alone

- One-person households: 33.3%

 

So the 17.5% of adults living alone occupy 33.3% of all dwellings in the region? Is that right?