960 replies to this topic

[Victoria Watcher]

Wow that would be great but I won't hold my breath. 

 

alas it over!  let your breath out now.

 

oh you weren't holding it anyway.

[Torrontes]

So basically three years from start of construction to finish.

Which doesn't seem out of line with other projects of this nature and size. If you don't have standard floor plates, then construction takes longer.

[Nparker]

I'd completely forgotten that this is what was originally proposed for this site (February 2014)

[IPH]

Temporary construction fencing around Black and White came down this morning! They must be getting close to occupancy date?

[Glen]

Rumors of an occupancy permit to be issued by Friday and notices of closing schedules to follow from Abstract

First posting on Citified for this development was December 17-2011. Almost eight years to the day

[Mike K.]

Wow.

[Nparker]

...First posting on Citified for this development was December 17-2011. Almost eight years to the day

Whoosh! Tempus fugit.

[MarkoJ]

Three year construction period....that is a ton of interest the developer is stuck paying. I can't see a construction mortgage on something like this being less than 5% per year. The struggle to get it finished towards the end must hurt as with each draw you pay more and more interest per month.

[MarkoJ]

This seems like a good deal -> https://www.realtor....ctoria-downtown

[IPH]

This seems like a good deal -> https://www.realtor....ctoria-downtown

That's $744/ft2 for a wood frame building which on first glance seems high. There are units at Jukebox (steel reinforced concrete) starting at $751/ft2 that appear to be a better deal on paper. But most of the units at Jukebox are in the $805-$1000+ per ft2 so I suspect the unit at $751/ft2 might be one of the units that will have a wall going up in front of its windows when Abastract builds 1010 Fort or some other issue. Plus that unit is larger than the one at B&W so while similar $/ft2 it still costs $55K more.

The one at Jukebox comes with a parking spot but B&W doesn't appear to include parking with the unit? But B&W's location is nicer & has a better vibe in my opinion so hard to say which is the better deal.

Either way $750ish/ft2 is where Concord Pacific's False Creek North condos were 15 years ago, now they are $1500/ft2 minimum. With all the pressure of developers and people coming here from Van it may not be long before $750/ft2 seams like a steal!

[Mike K.]

Indeed.

 

In March of 2017 we were having this very conversation about $1,000 a square foot for luxury suites within 18 months of then. Right on cue $1,000 came and went with luxury product now pushing north of $1,200 and average smaller units priced comfortably within $800 and $1,000, even woodframe.

[Torrontes]

Difficult to compare B&W with Jukebox based upon average size/price of units, finishes, total number of units, outlook, etc..

We can all have opinions, but Marko is a realtor specializing in condos, so seems to me his comment carries more weight!

It does seem like a good deal.

[Mike K.]

I can confirm the building received occupancy this morning!

[Glen]

Closing begin December 17

[IPH]

Difficult to compare B&W with Jukebox based upon average size/price of units, finishes, total number of units, outlook, etc..

We can all have opinions, but Marko is a realtor specializing in condos, so seems to me his comment carries more weight!

It does seem like a good deal.

I was not saying Marko was wrong or that he was right, merely pointing out that there are numerous factors that determine value, such as type of construction, location, finishes, parking etc. Although in the end I did say I liked B&W's location and vibe better so it was hard to say which was the better deal even if B&W didn't include parking.

Ultimately value is determined by what an actual purchaser will pay, not by what multiple armchair critics or even realtors hypothesise.

[IPH]

Its also interesting that the price spread between wood frame and concrete has narrowed or disappeared. I guess a lot of purchasers have forgotten what happens to wood framing when roofs and envelop systems fail or are poorly maintained.

[Kapten Kapsell]

In terms of pricing, Abstract's wood framed developments are usually priced close to the price of some concrete developments, and in some cases individual units exceed the price of equivalent concrete units.

 

Comparing Black and White with the recently-completed 989 Johnson: 

 

Unit 707 at 989 Johnson Street is a 2 bed, 2 bath unit with 875 square feet offered for sale by the developer at $642,500 inclusive of GST.

Unit 214 at Black and White is a 2 bed, 2 bath unit with 863 square feet offered for sale by the developer at $649,900 plus GST of approx. $32,500 for a total price of $682,400.

[MarkoJ]

Yea Abtract's wood historically sells for more than other developers' concrete. 

 

In general the spread between concrete and wood is not huge. Buyers give much more weight to other factors such as amenities near by, etc. 

 

For example, why does Travino (wood-framed and further out of town) sell for substantially more per sq/ft than Lyra?

Edited by MarkoJ, 05 December 2019 - 04:03 PM.

[jasmineshinga]

For example, why does Travino (wood-framed and further out of town) sell for substantially more per sq/ft than Lyra?

I expect it's due to the neighbourhood. Easy access to Saanich Commonwealth, right by a major transit hub, lots of restaurant and grocery options walking distance away, etc.

[lanforod]

^ that's exactly right. I live in the Travino neighbourhood too. I have no desire to be on Christmas hill, even though it's closer to town, school and work.