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UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Black and White
Uses: condo, commercial
Address: 1033 Cook Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 6
Condo units: 75 (1BR, 2BR, penthouse, 1BR + den, 2BR + den, junior 1BR)
Sales status: sold out / resales only
Black and White is a six-storey mixed-used development with five residential levels above a ground floor comme... (view full profile)
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[Fairfield] Black and White | Condos; commercial | 6-storeys | Under construction


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#621 Torrontes

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 08:59 AM

It is a welcome addition, daring to be different with its shifted layers and alternating colours.

 

Only time will tell how the various finishes look ten years out, especially if those angular ledges are not drained well, and of course what kind of wildlife roosts up there!

 

I think seagulls are more likely than llamas or ostriches.


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#622 Nparker

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 09:14 AM

I think I'd like it better if the exterior cladding were something other than brick. I find the use of a traditional material just doesn't "jive" with this design.



#623 aastra

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 09:33 AM

 

I think seagulls are more likely than llamas or ostriches.

 

You're not sticking your neck out with that prediction.


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#624 Promontory Kingpin

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 09:34 AM

Honestly, if I was looking to build a multi million dollar home I’d probably give Abstract a call. However for condo developments, they fall behind.

They cheap out in building materials by going for wood frame buildings and price the units as if they were in a top tier luxury steel & concrete building. I do know that the prices here originally weren’t too high, but the other buildings are priced at rediculous rates for what you get.

Abstract rely’s heavily on their local brand name, and clearly they are able to fool enough purchasers into buying their over priced condos.

For me Bellwood is an absolute “No”. However, when I want to spend a tonne of dough to have a cool stand alone home, I’ll call them.

Keep an eye out for the Abstract buddy watchdog comments coming in 3, 2, 1...

Edited by Promontory Kingpin, 04 February 2019 - 09:38 AM.

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#625 Mike K.

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 09:39 AM

Isn't Bellewood Park's five-storey building concrete?


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#626 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 09:40 AM

Keep an eye out for the Abstract buddy watchdog comments coming in 3, 2, 1...

 

what are you comparing them to though?  do purchasers really go out and look at an abstract property and nothing else comparable?  and just buy the abstract product?  that's hard to believe.

 

and finally. they are not "overpriced" if they sell them all.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 February 2019 - 09:42 AM.


#627 Promontory Kingpin

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 09:49 AM

Isn't Bellewood Park's five-storey building concrete?

Cypress is wood framed and overpriced. Oaks is concrete and steeply overpriced. For the price of one of the townhomes you can buy a stand-alone home in the same neighbourhood.

Abstract appeals to a well off but naive Oak Bay market that trusts them enough to figure if they’re building something it must be good, and they pass that information onto their offspring (who usually rellies on the elder’s funds for a down payment).

Edited by Promontory Kingpin, 04 February 2019 - 09:50 AM.


#628 Mike K.

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 10:27 AM

Oh gosh, PK. Everything you're saying is so cliché.

 

Despite your consternation, Bellewood Park reached 50% sold-out status last month, so the market has overwhelmingly decided to back their offering. Going by what you've said, you're not likely to be representative of Abstract's target market and that's perfectly ok.


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#629 Promontory Kingpin

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 10:29 AM

Keep an eye out for the Abstract buddy watchdog comments coming in 3, 2, 1...


Oh gosh, PK. Everything you're saying is so cliché.

Despite your consternation, Bellewood Park reached 50% sold-out status last month, so the market has overwhelmingly decided to back their offering. Going by what you've said, you're not likely to be representative of Abstract's target market and that's perfectly ok.

lol

Edited by Promontory Kingpin, 04 February 2019 - 10:34 AM.


#630 Torrontes

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 11:17 AM

Hard to compare a new build versus 40-60 year old existing stock in Rockland. Even harder to compare a strata unit, whether condo-style or townhouse, to a single family home. Different strokes for different folks.

 

986 Heywood is one of the few exceptions where a 4 story was built in concrete, and it was pricey. My understanding is 6 stories is the crossover point, but there are others on VV who know better. Nothing wrong with wood if it is done correctly, but that means additional materials and extra labour for sound-proofing.

 

Abstract is also currently building a less expensive project in Fifteen88. Looks OK and is reportedly selling well. Different location and lower fit-out standard.



#631 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 11:19 AM

For the price of one of the townhomes you can buy a stand-alone home in the same neighbourhood.

 

some people are very fine with paying $1000/mo. or $2000/mo. extra in purchase price and/or fees to not have to deal with their own stand-alone house though.  that's a very real market market.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 February 2019 - 11:21 AM.

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#632 Bob Fugger

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 11:20 AM

Abstract rely’s heavily on their local brand name, and clearly they are able to fool enough purchasers into buying their over priced condos.

 

I'm not in a position to comment on quality of construction.  But from an aesthetic perspective, I have to say that I don't disagree.  Aside from that one on the corner of Richmond Road & Oak Bay Avenue, I can't think of another Abstract project that is actually pleasing to the eye.  Check out their website:

  • Fifteen88 looks like a recladded 70s apartment block
  • Avery Lane townhomes has waaaay to many expanses of narrow vinyl-siding-like cladding on the front
  • Bowker Collection monolithic like Village Walk: doesn't appear to fit either the site or the neighbourhood
  • Black & White: as per the thread here, TBD: great on paper, will likely suffer in execution
  • The Emerson: "look at our long awning, it's like you're on Park Avenue!"
  • London Arbour looks like any other townhome development in Langford.  Oops, it's in Oaklands.
  • 8 on the Park: this one is OK, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how it's eight units
  • Element is just OK
  • Vue: YAWN
  • Village Walk: totally overpowering, uninspired monolith for the intersection
  • Brownstone: did they build literally the same development at Foul Bay Road & Runnymede Avenue as they did at 451 Chester Avenue, several years earlier?
  • Terra Verde & Terra Rosa: I will give them these ones: I do like how they look and fit in to the neighbourhood

 

OK, so now that I've looked, there are maybe 3-5 Abstract projects that I don't think are fugly.  As for build quality, I'll leave that to the rest of you who've actually been in/bought one of their units.


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#633 Nparker

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 11:31 AM

...Aside from that one on the corner of Richmond Road & Oak Bay Avenue, I can't think of another Abstract project that is actually pleasing to the eye...

The Maddison does stand out among Abstract's projects.


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#634 Torrontes

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 11:37 AM

BF, I tend to agree with you, but they appear to have a formula that works. Make them a bit funky (not too much), mix in a few feel good electric bikes and the odd BMW i3, add access to a few services, like a chef-on-call (that no one will use), shake and serve. Voila.


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#635 Glen

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:45 PM

Nice image Marko, thanks for taking the time and for posting so many views.  Anything that is different is always just that, different.  To each his/her own to like or dislike.



#636 Rob Randall

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 02:25 PM

Sure we can cherry-pick some stellar individual projects from other developers but I can't think of one outfit that can match Abstract in design quality day in and day out over a wide range of products from SFD to urban mixed use.


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#637 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 02:51 PM

alpha is doing a good job. although not over a big range.
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#638 Promontory Kingpin

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 03:23 PM

986 Heywood is one of the few exceptions where a 4 story was built in concrete, and it was pricey. My understanding is 6 stories is the crossover point, but there are others on VV who know better. Nothing wrong with wood if it is done correctly, but that means additional materials and extra labour for sound-proofing.

The Wade’s new building is 4 stories with a steel & concrete structure and they did not inflate their prices like Abstract does for their wood buildings. At the prices they charge, why don’t they have steel/concrete quality structures? Why is Cypress wood framed?? Does anyone know why a premium developer is cutting costs, but still pricing for more then what other developers price for nicer units in steel/concrete buildings??

Given the premiums prices that they charge, top teir quality should be at the core of each of Abstracts projects. But it is apperently not always the case.

Edited by Promontory Kingpin, 04 February 2019 - 03:30 PM.


#639 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 03:30 PM

Does anyone know why other developers of steel/concrete buildings (are) still pricing at less then what Alpha prices for wood??

 

the market!   alpha charges what they will get.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 February 2019 - 03:30 PM.


#640 Mike K.

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 03:50 PM

So... are we good now? Everyone’s flushed out their angst or should we have another round?

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