1753 replies to this topic

[Bob Fugger]

We are not Alberta. How would BC benefit? Minor tax intake after they pay off billions in the now defunct pipeline.

 

It's not about BC benefiting, it's about Canada benefiting - which ought to have at least a minor knock on effect on us.  Look, if JT lacks the testicular fortitude to declare Kinder Morgan to be "for the Advantage of Canada", might as well pack up the Confederation and let each Province/groups of Provinces go it along.  What's the point of Canada, otherwise?

[tjv]

BC could have stipulated that X% of 'oil' passing through the new pipeline is refined and for BC.

 

Victoria residents are currently paying $0.50 more per litre of gasoline than Edmonton residents are. That's literally $30.00 more per 60 litres of gasoline.

I'll gladly pay $30 a tank to live in Victoria over Edmonton any day

 

I had a friend living in Calgary gloating how cheap gas was.  I simply asked him what the weather was like (-15C) and how much he lost on the value of his house (lost ~110k in 4 years).  Let's just say he quickly changed the subject

 

I wonder what it costs to heat a comparable house in Edmonton vs Victoria, plus snow tires, plus winter coats, etc, etc, etc

[Mike K.]

It’s not just Victoria, but the entirety of BC that is paying more than the rest of the provinces.

[jonny]

We are not Alberta. How would BC benefit? Minor tax intake after they pay off billions in the now defunct pipeline.

BC is still in Canada, right?

Alberta is still in Canada, right?

Albertans pay Canadian federal taxes, right? Those same taxes that pay for things like the Navy. Hmmmm...

Albertans still vacation in BC, right?

Albertans still buy products from BC, right? Lumber, beer, wine, cell phones, services, etc etc.

Look, it's an interconnected economy. Alberta has done the heavy lifting for this country for 20+ years. Alberta does better = Canada does better = BC does better. A rising tide raises all boats.

Oh, and sorry, which pipeline is defunct? The Trans Mountain expansion is getting built.

[G-Man]

I have more love for BC than the rest of the country I suppose and don't see the return to BC as worth it.

Albertans will still vacation in BC no matter what. We are right next door and a nice place for them to go. They are not going to move all their ski boats to Saskatchewan. Also Alberta is making money off BC now. We already are buying most of our oil from them.

Finally the reason we pay more for gas in general is because of carbon taxes. While I am a supporter of carbon taxes, I did prefer when they were revenue neutral under the last government. And TJV I agree I happily pay more in gas to live where we do. It is beautiful here and don't really want to see that ruined for the good of Ontario or Alberta.

[rjag]

What would be ruined?

Are you concerned about 1 ship a day in a highly regulated marine highway where it’s being escorted by 2 ocean going tugs as well as 2 pilots whereas every other commercial ship that carries hundreds of tons of toxic bunker C has maybe a single pilot?

Thousands of commercial freighters travel these waters every year, but we don’t even rate as statistical noise compared to the rest of the planet

https://www.marinetr...ery:25.0/zoom:2

Have a look at this and filter to only tankers and look around the globe

[tjv]

Are you concerned about 1 ship a day in a highly regulated marine highway where it’s being escorted by 2 ocean going tugs as well as 2 pilots whereas every other commercial ship that carries hundreds of tons of toxic bunker C has maybe a single pilot?

I fish out in Juan de Fuca all the time and watch the countless freighters go by.  I have never once seen a tug escort

[Mike K.]

Finally the reason we pay more for gas in general is because of carbon taxes.

$0.50 cents worth per litre?

[rjag]

I fish out in Juan de Fuca all the time and watch the countless freighters go by. I have never once seen a tug escort

Exactly, what is proposed is for the new tanker traffic out of Burrard to have 2 tug escort to open water plus 2 pilots to Victoria

Edited by rjag, 31 December 2018 - 08:59 AM.

[jonny]

I fish out in Juan de Fuca all the time and watch the countless freighters go by.  I have never once seen a tug escort

 

*sigh*

 

As part of the enhanced Oceans Protection Plan announced countless times by the Feds and JT himself, the conditions of the original NEB approval and a signature piece of this whole deal is that the oil carriers will be escorted by a massive tug all the way from Westridge Marine Terminal to Buoy J (the western entrance of the Strait of Juan de Fuca). 

 

Oh, and oil laden tankers are presently tug escorted most of the route. Two additional emergency towing vessels have already been procured by the Federal Government, as a part of the OPP. 

 

http://www.vancouver...7997/story.html

[jonny]

I have more love for BC than the rest of the country I suppose and don't see the return to BC as worth it.

 

Sure, sure, wrap yourself in the BC flag. I suppose I just love Canada and our confederation a lot more than you.

 

The return for this country will be massive. Our landlocked oil situation has already cost this country billions in wealth that has instead gone to the Americans, Saudis and Russians. I sure as hell would rather us get that money than the bloody Russians or Saudis.   

 

Finally the reason we pay more for gas in general is because of carbon taxes. 

 

This is only partially correct. We pay drastically more because of supply and demand, as has been covered ad nauseam in this very thread. We have one over subscribed pipeline, one relatively small oil refinery in Burnaby and import the vast majority of our fuel from Alberta and Washington State with massive transportation barriers and costs.

 

The carbon tax in BC is presently only about 7.78 cents per litre of gasoline. It's not that big of an impact. 

[On the Level]

Finally the reason we pay more for gas in general is because of carbon taxes. 

 

 

$0.50 cents worth per litre?

 

Here is the average breakdown in cents per litre for December 

 

Calgary base cost 33.7 / tax 34.9 / Market and Refining Margin = 29  = ~97 

Victoria base cost 35.2 / tax 44.1 / Market and Refining Margin = 53 = ~133

 

http://www2.nrcan.gc...2018&Redisplay=

[PraiseKek]

Finally the reason we pay more for gas in general is because of carbon taxes. .

 

The real reason is we have hardly any refineries and will never, ever build anymore. 

[G-Man]

Sure, sure, wrap yourself in the BC flag. I suppose I just love Canada and our confederation a lot more than you.

 

This is true and I will put BC ahead of the rest of the country every time. Rafe Mair had a good article on this a few months before he died. http://rafeonline.co...tish-columbian/

[tjv]

Oh, and oil laden tankers are presently tug escorted most of the route.

Again, never seen a tug escort EVER and I am out on Juan de Fuca fishing a lot, plus trips regularly across Haro Strait  to the San Juan's and up into the Gulf Islands

 

They can say they are escorted most of the route, but I call a giant BS because I see tankers go by all the time while I sit at anchor

 

And of course you also have confirmation that the oil laden tankers coming from Alaska and coming down the US side of Juan de Fuca too?

[rjag]

The tugs are what is proposed not what is current! It’s part of the investment into coastal protection that was part of the proposal

Nobody implied the tugs are currently in use, and the Alaska tankers remain unescorted, it’s just the ones transitioning Vancouver

Edited by rjag, 31 December 2018 - 09:39 PM.

[tjv]

^last I checked "presently tug escorted" as Jonny wrote means now, not future

[jonny]

The tugs are what is proposed not what is current! It’s part of the investment into coastal protection that was part of the proposal

Nobody implied the tugs are currently in use, and the Alaska tankers remain unescorted, it’s just the ones transitioning Vancouver

Oil laden tankers leaving the Westridge Marine Terminal in Burnaby currently - today - are escorted by a tug for part of the route.


tjv, I'm deeply sorry that YOU have never personally seen that, but you are wrong. There are only about 5 oil laden tankers leaving Canada per month, so very few. Not many to see. They certainly do not go by anywhere near "all of the time".

Edited by jonny, 01 January 2019 - 10:41 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

There are only about 5 oil laden tankers leaving Canada per month

 

there is some good info here:

 

https://clearseas.org/en/tankers/

[jonny]

This is true and I will put BC ahead of the rest of the country every time. Rafe Mair had a good article on this a few months before he died. http://rafeonline.co...tish-columbian/

I put BC ahead of the rest of the country too, which is why I support the project and the expansion along with the billions of dollars in economic activity it will bring to BC and the many highly paid jobs it will create.