22 replies to this topic

[Gregory Hartnell]

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No-one wants to deprive the handicapped of full access to all parts of City Hall, including the Council Chambers, but I was not aware that there was a persistent public clamouring for this over-the-top expenditure.

What I do see, almost everyday, are various individuals such as Terry Colburn with his petition for more attention to be paid by all levels of government to mental health issues, agencies such as VIHA expressing a similar concern, and other concerned citizens and non-profit service providers expressing frustration with City Council over its dilatory record on the homelessness-mental health issue.

Spending more than $2,200,000 to install a new wheelchair-accessible elevator is wrong-headed at this time, and should have been deferred until we deal with the real pressing issues plaguing all of us.

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[Rorschach]

For that amount of money, you could hire a dozen homeless people with a litter to carry people up the stairs on demand for about 100 years. By then, there will probably be another city hall.

[TheVisionary]

For that amount of money, you could hire a dozen homeless people with a litter to carry people up the stairs on demand for about 100 years. By then, there will probably be another city hall.

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2.2 million dollars for a handicap elevator? Are they insane? This is a total waste of tax payers money! 2.2 million can probably add on another wing to city hall, with a handicap elevator access. I am sorry that the disabled can't get around easilly like us wholly functional people, but I wouldn't pay 2.2 million to assuage my supposed guilt at being fully functional. I care, but not that much. Some politicians just treat tax paying citizens like "milking cows".

This is probably just as dumb as spending millions on building traffic calming obstructions in Victoria streets? Victoria seems to be "out to lunch"! What kind of low quality weed have the planners been smoking!

[Galvanized]

City hall is a government office and everyone should have proper access to it.

The money also includes new fire exits and upgrades to the main electrical and fire alarm systems.

[obscurantist]

Well, I think this is a long overdue renovation. It does seem like a lot of money. Maybe they could have done it more cheaply, I don't know. Still, it sounds like a big improvement on the antiquated stair lift system. Have any of you actually ever had to use a wheelchair for a significant period of time?

(Edit: thanks, Galvanized, you said in your first sentence what I was trying to say. And thanks for clarifying that not all the money is being spent on the elevator.)

[Caramia]

I don't have any problem with the idea that public buildings should be fully accessible, and I don't mind my tax dollars going to making sure it is so. I don't see a conflict between that and dealing with other issues, or think one should be created.

[TheVisionary]

I have no problem with paying for a public elevator. However, I would save tax payer money by buying the cheapest model and package I can find on the market. I'll buy everything cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap.

Everyone must by economical, not the deluxe model.

[Holden West]

Often, buying cheap is false economics, especially with finicky devices like elevators.

[Baro]

There's no way, even with the worst buerocratic BS and criminal level pork-style funding that a single 2 story elevator could cost 2.2 million, a lot of that must be going to other re-fits and such that need to be done.

[Ms. B. Havin]

It's not just the elevator. It's a bunch of infrastructure upgrades, as already noted above (fire exits, electrical, structural, etc.).

[zoomer]

Is someone spreading rumours about a 2.2 million dollar elevator!? I think I should lock this thread!

The Visionary:

I have no problem with paying for a public elevator. However, I would save tax payer money by buying the cheapest model and package I can find on the market. I'll buy everything cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap.

kinda like they do in Eastern Europe, Turkey, certain other countries...where it seems like a good idea at the time, until the earthquake hits and half the building collapse after a moderate earthquake.

[Ms. B. Havin]

That "someone" was the Times-Colonist, which in a Nov.4 article claimed that most of the $2.2m would go toward a new elevator. But since you can't just cram a new, wider elevator into an existing old narrow shaft (ugh, that sounds so dopey), it's a matter of construction, and not just some fancy up-down machine.

I don't have the url for the article, but here it is, in full, with bolded bits and edits by me:

Project opens up City Hall to disabled
Most of $2.2 million in upgrades will go to replacing old, cramped elevator

Kim Westad
Times Colonist

Saturday, November 04, 2006

When Victoria Coun. Charlayne Thornton-Joe chaired a public hearing for the first time, she moved it to the lobby of City Hall.

It was the only place to accommodate a disabled man whose wheelchair was too large for the Douglas Street building's aged and small elevator.

That will be a thing of the past. Councillors voted unanimously this week in favour of a $2.2-million City Hall upgrade that will largely focus on the outdated elevator.

The new larger elevator will stop at all five levels of both the east and west wings and the third floor, eliminating the need for the stair lifts of various vintages. (Edit: i.e., we're talking construction, not just "pop a new elevator in"...)

"The money is well worth spending," said Thornton-Joe, as she recalled the impromptu public hearing in the lobby as the only way to accommodate the disabled speaker.

Coun. Bea Holland said it's a "significant expense, but it's an expense to create a far better City Hall."

The building's failings in terms of access were identified years ago, but highlighted in a 2004 report looking at an upgrade for withstanding earthquakes. The report said that the National Historic Site had other shortcomings including accessibility. City Hall includes the original 1878 structure and the 1962 council chamber addition.

Kim MacKay, a volunteer at the Disability Resource Centre, said access for all is an issue that must be dealt with. MacKay, who uses a wheelchair because of spina bifida, said she never goes to Victoria City Hall, because it's deemed by the disabled community to have poor accessibility.

"It's a government office and everyone should have the right to have proper access to it," MacKay said.

The complex construction will see a new elevator with doors on two sides, new fire exits, and upgrades to the main electrical service and fire alarm system.

The job has to be tendered. That, combined with a construction period of some six months, will see the project completed in the latter part of 2007.

Coun. Sonya Chandler said she, too, is in favour of the needed upgrade, but reminded council how easy it can be to spend millions on some things, yet have long debates about much smaller amounts of money for perhaps less-tangible things that also benefit the community.

That very thing happened later in the meeting, as councillors spent 20 minutes debating whether to approve a $200 donation to send a local Victoria woman to a conference on climate change in Nairobi and report back to council, and whether to provide $150 to pay for coffee and refreshments at an upcoming meeting on sewage.

"We could easily look like fools debating this," said Coun. Pam Madoff.
(Edit: "easily"? No comment.)

In the end, councillors had a split vote on the latter two issues. The coffee and refreshments were approved, but not the donation to send the woman to the climate change conference. Instead, a motion passed to have the finance committee review how council should deal with requests from the public for financial help in attending conferences that they will later tell council about.

mailto:kwestad@tc.canwest.com
© Times Colonist (Victoria) 2006

[zoomer]

That "someone" was the Times-Colonist, which in a Nov.4 article claimed that most of the $2.2m would go toward a new elevator.

Apologies to Gregory Hartnell then, as his comments were more than a rumour! Thanks for the article Ms. B! Still, I support the cost involved, kinda hard to make a strong case against it.

[Caramia]

I can't say I have a whole lot of faith in Victoria's media getting their facts straight. I've been a participant in a variety of things that have got media attention over my lifetime in this City. Not once have I seen a story 100% accurate, and occasionally there have been glaring mistruths involved.

[Mike K.]

^I'll say!

[renthefinn]

What's with the "over the top" description of this expenditure Gregory? I come to this site for facts, and if you wanna bring hearsay and conjecture into the discussion, that's not what people use the internet for! I'd appreciate if you just told me facts instead of misrepresenting a situation with overzealous descriptions that suit your political aspirations.

[Gregory Hartnell]

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I didn't have the TC in front of me when I started the thread, but I appreciate that Ms Havin has taken the time to show that, according to the newspaper report, in point of fact, most of the costs pertain to the installation of the expensive elevator.

If the elevator was not the main in item in the project, obviously all the other peripheral construction that Ms Havin and other writers mention would not be necessary. There would be no project to debate.

Far from spreading hearsay, I stand by my original post, having sent it as a public service for fairminded discussion here.

As for my political aspirations, they are a matter of public record, and I make no apologies for them. Last time I checked, it is not a crime in Canada to aspire to political office.

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[captain highliner]

It may not be a crime to seek public office, but it sure is cheezy when some lunatic fringe mayoral candidate tries to use a semi private webforum as their personal soapbox.

[TheVisionary]

It's not just the elevator. It's a bunch of infrastructure upgrades, as already noted above (fire exits, electrical, structural, etc.).

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Well, if 2.2 million dollars buys structural upgrades and a lot of other accessories, then perhaps it maybe worth looking at. I don't like spending money without getting all the fully loaded package. I want as much options as can be crammed for the price tag, any price tag.

If buffets allowed me to take food home, I'd clean them out. :twisted:

[rayne_k]

I want as much options as can be crammed for the price tag, any price tag.

Opposites ends of city hall look like they are totally different places - compare downstairs of the newer part with upstairs of older part.......then there's the CRD building.. holy contrasts.. all from public pots.