111 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Here's how it plays out. If the BCTF get rolled by the province, other unions know they'll have much less leverage when it comes time to renegotiate for their workers (and contracts are ending soon across multiple union fronts). Ultimately major negotiations for untold thousands of workers depend on the outcome of the latest struggle between the province and teachers.

[AllseeingEye]

Of course, and I am merely playing devil's advocate here, there are many, many people across this province who would not at all be unhappy with union's having "less leverage".

[Mike K.]

Yes, that is true, but nonetheless the strike by other unionized workers in BC is merely a sign of solidarity. Will the Liberal government take notice? Not likely.

I do feel, however, that what has happened to teachers and their students at the hands of the Liberal government is hard to swallow.

[mc9]

I wonder if the former 'occupy' movement will be participating in any of this?

[maniac78]

I still can't believe the teachers took the bait.

[Bernard]

Some trends in schooling in BC.

Of students in BC in 2006/07 10.6% in private schools, in 2011/12 it is 11.2%, for the early years it is more than 13% in private schools.
In 2006/07 5% of public school students were in distance education, in 2011/12 it is 8%

When you take private schools, French Immersion, and distance education, that represents more than 1/4 of the students in BC. The public is leaving the regular school system.

[AllseeingEye]

Interesting but unsurprising stats, thanks for posting Bernard. I know our 13 year old goes to a private Catholic school (and has done since Grade 1) and although I personally am not a RC, based on the quality of the education and the fact she enjoys both her studies and her teachers immensely we would have it no other way.

[MarkoJ]

I went to Oaklands, Lansdowne, and Vic High and I don't think I missed out on anything. Can't phantom having kids and having to pay for private education.

[AllseeingEye]

It is a personal choice - I would assume Marko that you understand and support the concept of "choice" in a democracy? And who said anything about missing anything? This isn't after all Stalinist Russia or North Korea. For the record I went to Braefoot/Campus View - Cedar Hill - Mt Doug, all very good schools in their own right, and where at each stage I received excellent instruction with in some cases teachers I recall with great fondness to this day.

Regardless, for our daughter we made a choice of a private education -it was and is the right school with the right curriculum that suited her needs: ultimately it was our choice. So what is the issue? For that matter for the price we pay for that education I cannot fathom the fact that some people prefer to spend that same amount of money on a single bottle of wine, or for a night out at a high end restaurant paying ludicrous prices for a single meal...but they do. Maybe in fact you are one of them. And in a democratic country you are welcome to it. More to the point you have that right, which I would not have the temerity to question.

[G-Man]

Private school is not a choice for most people.

[AllseeingEye]

So? Your point being? That since "most" (whatever that means, please define)don't have that choice therefore neither should we?

Interesting too since "most" people I know actually do have a choice. Some choose the private education path, others do not, which is perfectly fine since neither is "right" - you do what you think best to suit your child(ren). And your problem with that is...what, exactly?

[MarkoJ]

It is a personal choice - I would assume Marko that you understand and support the concept of "choice" in a democracy? And who said anything about missing anything? This isn't after all Stalinist Russia or North Korea. For the record I went to Braefoot/Campus View - Cedar Hill - Mt Doug, all very good schools in their own right, and where at each stage I received excellent instruction with in some cases teachers I recall with great fondness to this day.

Regardless, for our daughter we made a choice of a private education -it was and is the right school with the right curriculum that suited her needs: ultimately it was our choice. So what is the issue? For that matter for the price we pay for that education I cannot fathom the fact that some people prefer to spend that same amount of money on a single bottle of wine, or for a night out at a high end restaurant paying ludicrous prices for a single meal...but they do. Maybe in fact you are one of them. And in a democratic country you are welcome to it. More to the point you have that right, which I would not have the temerity to question.

My apologies, my comment was not geared towards you or meant to offend you. I should have noted that *personally* I wouldn't send my potential children to a private school. a) I don't think I could afford it or maybe I could but I would rather save it for their university education b) I don't think the quality of education is much better in private schools. My perception of it is they have betters kids to work, but I could be wrong.

[AllseeingEye]

Fair enough Marko; as I said public vs private boils down to many as a choice and yes to G-man's point for others its simple economics.

In our case we are frankly fortunate that "granny" has already planned/gifted for our daughter's university education - its not something we need to worry about and yes I well understand not everyone is that fortunate. We are therefore in the fortuitous position that we can focus on the "here and now" in terms of 'cost' and not worry about ten years' hence.

OTOH I do think for some people "private" conjures up some bogus image a la Harvard or Yale or Stanford in terms of the cost. Being completely transparent here the cost to us for a private Catholic education clocks in at $7K/year, hardly an earth shattering sum, and especially in the context of a two income family, not difficult to come up with given the perceived - to us at least - benefit. You of course are free to disagree

[G-Man]

So? Your point being? That since "most" (whatever that means, please define)don't have that choice therefore neither should we?

Interesting too since "most" people I know actually do have a choice. Some choose the private education path, others do not, which is perfectly fine since neither is "right" - you do what you think best to suit your child(ren). And your problem with that is...what, exactly?

Sorry thought it was obvious. Most people can't afford private schools. So yes you and your friends get to have a choice. Most do not. I have no issue with this just pointing out the fallacy of choice.

[MarkoJ]

Fair enough Marko; as I said public vs private boils down to many as a choice and yes to G-man's point for others its simple economics.

In our case we are frankly fortunate that "granny" has already planned/gifted for our daughter's university education - its not something we need to worry about and yes I well understand not everyone is that fortunate. We are therefore in the fortuitous position that we can focus on the "here and now" in terms of 'cost' and not worry about ten years' hence.

OTOH I do think for some people "private" conjures up some bogus image a la Harvard or Yale or Stanford in terms of the cost. Being completely transparent here the cost to us for a private Catholic education clocks in at $7K/year, hardly an earth shattering sum, and especially in the context of a two income family, not difficult to come up with given the perceived - to us at least - benefit. You of course are free to disagree

I am sure there probably is a statistically benefit to private schools; however, I am bias. I went to a poorly rated public highschool and I've done relatively well for a late 20s something in terms of education, finances, career(s). I just helped a close late 20s friend from highscool who also went to Vic High into a 880k home. So my thoughts are, is it really the k-12 education or the individual?

I don't remember learning much in grade school. A lot of fluff along the lines of "find a career/job you will enjoy," and not a lot of reality. Can't say that post secondary was much better. I learned more in two months running my own business than I did in 2 years doing a masters at UBC.

Little off topic but I did grade 1 in Croatia and what we were expected to know in terms of mathematics to pass grade 1 was equivalent to grade 4 here.

[G-Man]

According to the authors of Freakonomics the stats are not straight forward

http://www.freakonom...etter-teachers/

[Robb]

Probably just throwing fuel on the fire here, but...

I think Public School education should be mandatory for all children.

Having a Private School option reduces pressure to make our public system the best it can be.

Private Schools also limit a child's exposure to children of different backgrounds; social, economic, religious, differing-ability, etc.

[VicHockeyFan]

Probably just throwing fuel on the fire here, but...

I think Public School education should be mandatory for all children.

Having a Private School option reduces pressure to make our public system the best it can be.

Private Schools also limit a child's exposure to children of different backgrounds; social, economic, religious, differing-ability, etc.

Uck. Isn't it bad enough that the government makes us use a healthcare system that is terrible? Now we should be forced to send our kids to schools that we have no say in how they are run? No thanks.

And now, for those that think our healthcare system is excellent:

A) If my dog needs a new hip, I can't get the surgery tomorrow.
B) If my grandmother does, or all of us when we get there, we wait in pain for 18 months.

HERE is our healthcare system, number 30 on WHO's list.

[tedward]

Now we should be forced to send our kids to schools that we have no say in how they are run?

This makes no sense.

You have no more or less say in how public schools are run than private schools in most cases. Electing school board officials and MLAs gives you a say in how schools are organized. How is that having "no say".

If you want direct input into your local school then join the PAC. If you want even more control get involved in a charter school.

[MarkoJ]

Uck. Isn't it bad enough that the government makes us use a healthcare system that is terrible? Now we should be forced to send our kids to schools that we have no say in how they are run? No thanks.

And now, for those that think our healthcare system is excellent:

A) If my dog needs a new hip, I can't get the surgery tomorrow.
B) If my grandmother does, or all of us when we get there, we wait in pain for 18 months.

HERE is our healthcare system, number 30 on WHO's list.

Waitlists in BC are slowly coming down. There is a lot of pressure on the healthcare system due to population demographics.