34 replies to this topic

[LJ]

LJ it would be an honour if you could join us to compete.

I will try to make it.

[glenalan54]

We went there today for a beer. They only sell craft beers (two pints for $12.) The place is set up like a restaurant with small square tables and overstuffed uncomfortable chairs. It looks like they are trying to distance themselves from 'Langford'. My friend and I both thought that the format will not work in this location. Some menu items are.
Thai Chili Chicken $11
Nachos$13.50 +$2 guacamole. +$4 beef
Caesar salad $9
Haddock and Chips one $12 two $15
Glen Lake Super dog-12 inch $12
Burger $13 add $1 for any extra toppings

It seems pricey for a place that would do better as greasy spoon café.

This is the trend today, a blurring of pubs into restaurants. How can pub owners survive in an atmosphere where people have to think twice before they order a beer with lunch (or without lunch)?

Outright prohibition of booze didn't work in 1917-1921 in BC but the proponants to prohibit alcohol have found that "social engineering" will do the job just as well.
The demise of the bar/pub can be attributed to many things which include:

1.) The smoking bylaw slowly eroded an adults right to choose and hit owners of drinking establishments in the pocketbook while they scrambled to add "smoking rooms" to their establishments to keep customers. This broke up tables of customers dividing them between their smoking and non-smoking friends. Then a few years later a total ban on smoking in bars became law leaving the smoking rooms as an empty white elephant.
(Yes I know the health beneifits of non-smoking; but people's right to choose has been taken away by this law.)

2.) The CRD in hand with the Liquor Control Board are far too heavy handed in dealing out harsh punishment for violations. Owners of bar/pub primary licenses are at the mercy of generally over zealous regulators who can shut down an establishment for the slightest infraction. What is most appaling is that the owners have no recourse or appeal. This plainly is unfair in a so-called democracy.
Serious infractions do occur that cannot be tollerated such as staff and customers snorting coke in the washrooms. But I can recall many minor infractions and borderline calls made by regulators that have resulted in fines and a combination of fines and shutting down the establishment for up to a week. It's no wonder pub owners are worried.

3.) The drinking and driving laws have gone crazy. While most people applaud the effort to get drunks off the road this law can potentially persecute anyone who dares have a beer with their lunch. Until recently, the police had the right to act judge, jury and prosecuter when pulling suspected drinking drivers over. There are a number of incidents where a driver has paid heavy fines for blowing .05 to .08. It reminds me of the elderly Duncan man who went to his local neighbourhood pub for lunch with his wife, he had one pint of beer with his meal and was subsequently pulled over and fined.

4.) The price of doing business also hurts the owners of drinking establishments by over regulation and unreasonable by-laws. I thought the so-called Liberal government of BC was the government of "free enterprise" and deregulation. The HST didn't help. Think again.

Years ago owning or leasing any kind of liquor-primary establishment usually brought in a tidy profit. But today it is too costly to operate in part due to the reasons cited above.

Finally another reason for the metamorposis of the bar/pub to a restaurant can be attributed to the changing attitudes of society. People simply cannot afford to enjoy themselves in their local and/or have chosen other means for entertainment. Many stay at home (and drink at home) to be close to their computer or/and simply because it is cheaper. The cost of booze is restrictive, even the cheapest draft beer is $2.15 a glass.

Well I'll climb down from my soapbox now but I wanted anyone who is interested enough in this topic and have read this far to remember why your local pub will soon be a restaurant. And for those of you left that still buck the trend and go for a beer - make sure you give them a tip. Cheers.

[VicHockeyFan]

The demise of the bar/pub can be attributed to many things which include:

1.) The smoking bylaw slowly eroded an adults right to choose and hit owners of drinking establishments in the pocketbook while they scrambled to add "smoking rooms" to their establishments to keep customers. This broke up tables of customers dividing them between their smoking and non-smoking friends. Then a few years later a total ban on smoking in bars became law leaving the smoking rooms as an empty white elephant.
(Yes I know the health beneifits of non-smoking; but people's right to choose has been taken away by this law.)

Nobody has ever had a "right to choose" whether or not they wanted to inflict a carcinogen on workers. That's what smoking indoors does. Customers, fair enough, they can choose to go elsewhere, but what about workers? Sure, you could say they could work elsewhere, but then I'd like to run a very dangerous coal mine, but I'll warn workers in advance of my lack of safety precautions, then let them choose whether or not they want to work in my mine.

2.) The CRD in hand with the Liquor Control Board are far too heavy handed in dealing out harsh punishment for violations. Owners of bar/pub primary licenses are at the mercy of generally over zealous regulators who can shut down an establishment for the slightest infraction. What is most appaling is that the owners have no recourse or appeal. This plainly is unfair in a so-called democracy.
Serious infractions do occur that cannot be tollerated such as staff and customers snorting coke in the washrooms. But I can recall many minor infractions and borderline calls made by regulators that have resulted in fines and a combination of fines and shutting down the establishment for up to a week. It's no wonder pub owners are worried.

I agree with most of this. Most violations are customers violating laws they are well aware of, yet the establishment owner is penalized. However, owners do have some legal recourse, right up to the supreme court. Obviously that's not inexpensive, so most owners cave to fines and suspensions - less than 20% are even taken to a preliminary hearing.

Years ago owning or leasing any kind of liquor-primary establishment usually brought in a tidy profit. But today it is too costly to operate in part due to the reasons cited above.

True.

[glenalan54]

I have included the smoking bylaw (from a partial ban to a full ban) to illustrate one of the reasons why drinking establishments have been on the decline as owners had to modify their establishments at a great cost. I fully realize the health benefits of not breathing in second hand smoke as I am a non-smoker myself. I recall the days of smoking in such small spaces like Big Bad Johns where one would have to wash all their clothes - right down to their underwear after a few hours in there.
The point is not that exposure to smoking is okay but that the outright ban and the subsequent loss of any "compromise" was lost. Self-serve closed of smoking rooms, although still active in parts of our province that is not tightly regulated still exist, have been banned.

[G-Man]

I could be wrong but I thought that a food primary licensee can still serve boos without food so long as there total sales on food is greater.

[G-Man]

Food-Primary Licence (Restaurants)
The Liquor Control and Licensing Branch issues food-primary licences to businesses (restaurants) where the service of food, as opposed to liquor, is the primary focus of the business.

Licensed restaurants may serve any kind of liquor. However, a full range of appetizers and main courses must be available and being served, whenever liquor is available. (Restaurants with 50 or more seats only may apply to have a small, separate lounge area where they can serve liquor without food.)

Restaurants may remain open 24-hours-a-day, but may serve liquor between 9:00 am and 4:00 am only (late-night hours, after midnight, require Liquor Control and Licensing Branch and local government approval). Minors are allowed in all food-primary establishments.

Businesses not eligible for a food-primary licence include:

restaurants in mall food fairs

restaurants that do mostly take-out service

stand-alone banquet rooms without fully equipped kitchens, and

mobile food providers, such as hot-dog vendors.

http://www.pssg.gov....imary/index.htm

[Baro]

Why do we need all these rules? Many countries get by just fine without any liquor licensing laws and in fact all the places I've visited with no strict liquor licensing laws had far less rowdy drunks on the street. (in fact people from these countries often comment on the over-drinking and street drunks here compared to their homes)

Is it a financial thing, where established pubs and liquor stores want a monopoly? Is it a pseudo-science based public safety fear where politicians/voters believe society will collapse if you can buy a beer at the corner store or from a hot dog cart? Some sort of puritanical hold-over?

I've never understood the extreme hoops businesses must jump through to have alcohol under their roofs.

[VicHockeyFan]

Why do we need all these rules? Many countries get by just fine without any liquor licensing laws and in fact all the places I've visited with no strict liquor licensing laws had far less rowdy drunks on the street. (in fact people from these countries often comment on the over-drinking and street drunks here compared to their homes)

Is it a financial thing, where established pubs and liquor stores want a monopoly? Is it a pseudo-science based public safety fear where politicians/voters believe society will collapse if you can buy a beer at the corner store or from a hot dog cart? Some sort of puritanical hold-over?

I've never understood the extreme hoops businesses must jump through to have alcohol under their roofs.

It's very unclear to me too. Like the arena liquor fiasco. What kids go there and buy $7 beers to get wasted, when they can get someone to bootleg them a $10 mickey of vodka and drink elsewhere, or even better, sneak that vodka into the game?

It's very odd.

I'm feeling the same thing about the big Monty's undercover liquor/drugs operation. How has the public been served by this use of resources?

[LJ]

I like it in Japan where you can buy beer out of a vending machine on the street.

[Bob Fugger]

I like it in Japan where you can buy beer out of a vending machine on the street.

I wonder if the beer vending machine is anywhere the used schoolgirls' knickers vending machine. Oh Japan, you so crazy!

[Sparky]

^ Bob, that's bad, that's off topic, and you should have spelled it "clazy"

EDIT: in all fairness Bob.....how would you have known that a machine like that even exists???

Geezus.

[Bob Fugger]

^ Bob, that's bad, that's off topic, and you should have spelled it "clazy"

EDIT: in all fairness Bob.....how would you have known that a machine like that even exists???

Geezus.

cracked.com - they do good work.

[glenalan54]

Why do we need all these rules? Many countries get by just fine without any liquor licensing laws and in fact all the places I've visited with no strict liquor licensing laws had far less rowdy drunks on the street. (in fact people from these countries often comment on the over-drinking and street drunks here compared to their homes)

Is it a financial thing, where established pubs and liquor stores want a monopoly? Is it a pseudo-science based public safety fear where politicians/voters believe society will collapse if you can buy a beer at the corner store or from a hot dog cart? Some sort of puritanical hold-over?

I've never understood the extreme hoops businesses must jump through to have alcohol under their roofs.

I think many of these rules date back to Christian-Puritan ethics - the Conservative belief that "man" is basically evil and requires to be "controled". Aside from philosophy, it's the same nonsense that keeps "pot" not only illegal but a criminal offence. As a society we spend more time, money and resources trying to keep a lid (no pun intended) on the marjuana trade as well as booze and cigarettes.
I believe alot of people are making money and trading political favours by keeping these "vices" regulated and in the case of drugs, illegal. Harper's answer: More jails and longer sentences, while he attempts to close off avenues for solutions such as InSite.

The so-called fight on drugs is as usless as wearing a hard-hat to protect yourself from a sky scraper falling directly on your head. It would be funny but for the number of innocent lives being lost, both police and cilvilian, and people sent to jail who would normally never be branded a criminal - their only offence was to get high; all while organized criminals laugh their way to the bank.
But regulation and the continual wacky liquor rules are making money for bureaucrats.
I think it's more a case of political will or perhaps enough people will get fed-up and demand changes to these archaic and hurtful laws.

[maniac78]

The problem with drugs is that they are instantly intoxicating. Their entire purpose is to alter your mind state. Alcohol does not do that nor do cigarettes. Notice that it is illegal to be intoxicated in a public place. There is a reason for this in a civil society. If you legalize drugs you have to legalize intoxication which is something I hope never happens.

The other thing is that legalization will not reduce prices as many people falsely believe. If pot is ever legalized it will be taxed and regulated just as severely as cigarettes and alchohol. If you're a pot head I'd be pretty wary of what the government getting control.

[Sparky]

Stopped by the new pub at the Glen Lake Inn today and was pleasantly surprised.

Craig the bartender gave me three samples of beer to try before I chose the "Blue Buck" (he says it's imported from Esquimalt)

All in all it was quite delightful. They have a full kitchen for the hungry, and in all fairness there was a down home country atmosphere that included a lot of humour.

Craig the bartender (and I think he has some skin in the game, as VHF would say).... is quite the comedian.

This might not be the spot to take that special someone on a first date.....but you won't be disappointed if you stop in for a beer and a dog.