538 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

It should be up to the establishment whether or not they want to allow minors in their pub/lounge areas, not the government.

 

I think I more or less agree.  But I'd like to see some evening out between the establishment penalties and those for the actual perpetrator, the minors.  Currently if they are found in a place where they are not allowed, they get usually, zero penalty.  Not so for the poor establishment that got duped or tricked by the perpetrator.

[LocalMom]

I distinctly remember being in Oak Bay Village with my newborn son, my husband and my mother (and her hubbie) here from Ontario. Middle of the day - wanted some lunch - poked into the Penny Farthing and were told we couldn't eat or drink there cause of our baby. Seemed absolutely ridiculous - when he was fast asleep. So off to another establishment we went. So yes - these changes will help scenarios like this... 

[VicHockeyFan]

On the flip side, I don't want to hear a baby crying or me having to limit my potty mouth because a kid sits next to me at the bar.

[sebberry]

On the flip side, I don't want to hear a baby crying or me having to limit my potty mouth because a kid sits next to me at the bar.

 

That's exactly why the majority of parents will be taking their young children to family restaurants.  I'm guessing you won't see too many minors under 14 in pubs.

[Holden West]

I totally feel VHF's and Local Mom's opinions. Both sides are completely understandable and valid. Tough issue--I'm still undecided.

[LocalMom]

First-off, the young child is not going to be AT THE BAR - they will be with a parent and therefore sitting at a private (ykwim) table. And the child isn't going to be there at prime-drinking/partying hours - for ME and most people I know, they'd love the opportunity to go to their neighbourhood pub with the kid for lunch or dinner. And dinnertime with kids? It is before 7pm by a long shot.

 

I do think, however, the bar/pub should be able to decide for themselves whether they are open to ALL or only those over 19. It will quickly weed-out the places I want to go, and places where VHF wants to go. Although I'd love to buy VHF a pint.

[rjag]

2 examples here

 

London a few years back there was a pub across from our hotel that was recommended for the great food and atmosphere....they have a sign on the door, kids welcome until 6pm after that no one admitted under 18....makes sense to me and what was interesting was the pub had 2 distinct clientele and did very well as a result.

 

Other example in the great State of Texas last March. Our teenage son was allowed into the bar and he was also allowed to have a beer as he was in our presence. Seems that even though the drinking age is 21 in Texas they have a personal responsibility law which states;

 Texas law permits service to minors (any age under 21) as follows: if the minor is in the visible presence of an adult parent, guardian, or spouse or other adult to whom he has been committed by a court

 

Makes sense to me. We asked the bar staff about it and they said they have never encountered any problems with this. The kid can't order the drink the parent has to and the parent has to remain on the premises.

 

Big difference between bars and nightclubs signs at the entrance to nightclubs clearly indicate no minors.

 

So the option is there for the bar owner to decide and in the case of the London bar they split it down the middle.

 

Wonder how this will change the restrictions on beer tents at outdoor events....

[rjag]

On the flip side, I don't want to hear a baby crying or me having to limit my potty mouth because a kid sits next to me at the bar.

I'm sure most kids to teach us all a thing or 2 about the proper use of swear words!!!

 

So in the case of your concerns what about your 'potty-mouth' at a restaurant...i.e. Cactus Club on a Friday night....gets pretty rowdy in there and its a restaurant....are you implying you only use foul language in a restricted setting such as an 'adult only' establishment????

[VicHockeyFan]

I'm sure most kids to teach us all a thing or 2 about the proper use of swear words!!!

 

So in the case of your concerns what about your 'potty-mouth' at a restaurant...i.e. Cactus Club on a Friday night....gets pretty rowdy in there and its a restaurant....are you implying you only use foul language in a restricted setting such as an 'adult only' establishment????

 

I actually don't swear that much and not in the earshot of strangers very often.

 

 Texas law permits service to minors (any age under 21) as follows: if the minor is in the visible presence of an adult parent, guardian, or spouse or other adult to whom he has been committed by a court

 

 

Hey, so a 21-year-old can marry an 18-year-old and they can drink together!  Nice!

[jklymak]

^ If the 21 year old is the guardian, then why not?

 

Anyway, I have to admit that our liquor laws completely baffle me.  Why are there three (or more?) different liquor licenses?  Seems they should just have two, one for pubs and restaurants and the other for no-minors allowed bars and nightclubs.  As Rjag points out, who can tell if Cactus Club is a restaurant or a pub?  Is Swan's on a Thu at noon more like Sticky Wicket or more like Red Robbin?  

 

Of course this means loosening the rules for one or both these licenses, but I'd be all for that. 

[LJ]

I like that Texas rule, as with any other rule it is open to abuse but it makes sense to me. We went in to a pub for brunch one day with an 18 year old, we never gave the age a thought until the server asked for ID and we had to leave. We weren't going to even order any liquor so they lost out on $50-60 of sales for a stupid law.

 

Your kid can walk into a liquor store with you - they just can't buy anything, why not the same law for a pub?

[OSJ]

^ If the 21 year old is the guardian, then why not?

 

Anyway, I have to admit that our liquor laws completely baffle me.  Why are there three (or more?) different liquor licenses?  Seems they should just have two, one for pubs and restaurants and the other for no-minors allowed bars and nightclubs.  As Rjag points out, who can tell if Cactus Club is a restaurant or a pub?  Is Swan's on a Thu at noon more like Sticky Wicket or more like Red Robbin?  

 

Of course this means loosening the rules for one or both these licenses, but I'd be all for that. 

part of the difference in licenses is this,

if you hold a liquor primary license here in victoria, it is worth tonnes of money.  they dont release them anymore, so if you want to open a bar and use one then you have to buy one privatly wich could run you $200K. or more.

for a food primary, you simply apply and pay your small fee and voila!

Cactus Club is a restaurant

Swans is a BrewPub license

[VicHockeyFan]

part of the difference in licenses is this,

if you hold a liquor primary license here in victoria, it is worth tonnes of money.  t

 

But if the other part of the rules applies, that you can drink in restaurants without having to order food - which nobody except bars really oppose - then these licenses will become quite devalued.

[jklymak]

^ good. This rationing of liquor licenses seems ridiculous to me. Like don't get me wrong there maybe a limit on licenses based on land use. Ie the neighbours object. But otherwise, why is there a limit on these? Seems like a scam.

[hotdoglegz]

Email today from the Downtown Business Association says that the first liquor licence in Victoria was for the Bengal Lounge at the Empress Hotel. It was issued in 1954. Is it accurate? The date seems late. The same email says that at the time it was one of 3 in BC at the time.

[G-Man]

I think that is somewhat correct though I am unsure about the BC stat. I know that some of the other ones were the 4 Mile and the 6 Mile pubs...

[VicHockeyFan]

We had prohibition from 1917 to 1921.  There was drinking before 1917, I guess maybe liquor "licenses" came into being later.

 

6 Mile goes back to 1855.

 

 

 

In 1855, Parsons bought 40 acres of land from the Hudson Bay company and built Parsons Bridge Hotel. The “Parsons” ran the rambling wooden hotel with its perimeter veranda for a number of years. It apparently opened in 1855 but Parsons didn’t purchase his “country retail licence” until the next year (perhaps encouraged to do so after paying a fine of two pounds 10). This made official what is the oldest pub in B.C. still operating today.

 

 

[Bingo]

Grocery stores cannot sell alcohol if they're within a kilometre of another liquor store but as it stands only two major stores on the south island meet this criteria.

http://www.cfax1070....or-laws-limitin

 

[lanforod]

^ similarly, only 2 stores in Vancouver would be eligible as well. Time to relax that rule as well... I'm not really convinced the store in a store model is going to work anyways. There is just too many private and BC liquor stores already.

[VicHockeyFan]

Why do we have the rule in the first place?  We don't say car dealers, or grocery stores, or escort agencies have to be 1km apart.  And what's with 1km?  Does it make sense in downtown Vancouver, to have to walk a long distance for convenience?  I mean, we have liquor stores here closer than 1km.  Harris Green Liquor (View St.), the store at Yates and Blanshard, the Sticky Wicket store, the one in the Rialto hotel.  Are they causing problems being so close?