73 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Thirdly, no servers are allowed to keep their tips. They are paid server wages of 9.50 an hour but the tips are gathered up by this restaurant "manager" and kept to be disbursed at some unknown date. None of the servers knows anything about the process of tip disbursal. They are all afraid to ask, apparently.

I think that's fairly standard. My girlfriend receives her tips (in cash) weeks later from the accounting department. Management taking care of tip disbursement is likely an easier and more responsible way of doing it to ensure all individuals who should receive tips receive their fair share.

[peanutflower]

It still matters in this case. Minimum Wage in B.C. is $10.25 an hour.
No alcohol is being served at The Beach House. The servers are being paid $9.50 an hour The minimum wage of servers who are serving alcohol does not apply in this case as the restaurant is not serving liqour. They must pay the minimum wage of $10.25 to the best of my knowledge. I had heard complaints in the area also about this fact . I do not understand the way servers tips are "Pooled" and that management receives a part of them and management is on salary. No wonder service is so lousy here in most cases from the service staff. There is no incentive to provide quality service Do all restaurants "Pool" the tips from their patrons ?

Well, actually that's not all that standard. My daughter has worked in seven pubs/bars/restaurants in Victoria and Vancouver and never has there been a tip pool. The standard is to contribute 15 percent to a tip pool for bus people, kitchen staff, et cetera, but not the entire tips of every server. At the Beach House the servers don't even know what they're entitled to receive because they can't keep track of it because the information is just gone. It is illegal for an establishment to keep any portion of any tips earned for use by the restaurant itself for anything, like dine and dash funds (also illegal) breakages, uniforms, anything. That tip money is earned by the server. I think the whole environment at the Beach House is really poor and these poor young kids who don't know any better are afraid to speak up for themselves and get what they worked for. I do have this on firsthand knowledge, not rumour, BTW. That's enough to make me not go there until I hear that the staff are being treated fairly.

[VicHockeyFan]

I think that's fairly standard. My girlfriend receives her tips (in cash) weeks later from the accounting department. Management taking care of tip disbursement is likely an easier and more responsible way of doing it to ensure all individuals who should receive tips receive their fair share.

I think that's absolutely poor practice. It takes away incentive to provide good service, when the reward comes days or weeks later.

If the practices here are as described by some, I'm not surprised the service is poor, they have a labour pool sourced from the very worst of workers, those that can't find any better job than this place.

[Matt R.]

I think that's absolutely poor practice. It takes away incentive to provide good service, when the reward comes days or weeks later.

If the practices here are as described by some, I'm not surprised the service is poor, they have a labour pool sourced from the very worst of workers, those that can't find any better job than this place.

Popping in just to point out that it's not uncommon for servers to receive their grats days or a week after the fact because most people pay with credit card or debit these days, including tip, so there usually isn't cash for the server to take home at the end of the shift. It's not uncommon for it to take a few days for the manager or accountant or whoever to settle the cash, do a cash order, head to the bank to get the cash, then come back and divvy it up. Some of you may not realize that since people rarely pay with cash these days, it does take time to gather the cash and pay out what is owed.

There are a couple higher end restaurants in town that pool all grats and divvy them up based on hours worked. It can serve to enhance the team environment as the better everyone works, the better everyones tips are. This generally doesn't work in a large environment where there are weaker links. I should also say that the servers I know at these establishments are very happy with the money they make.

Other than that, I have nothing to say.

Matt.

[peanutflower]

Popping in just to point out that it's not uncommon for servers to receive their grats days or a week after the fact because most people pay with credit card or debit these days, including tip, so there usually isn't cash for the server to take home at the end of the shift. It's not uncommon for it to take a few days for the manager or accountant or whoever to settle the cash, do a cash order, head to the bank to get the cash, then come back and divvy it up. Some of you may not realize that since people rarely pay with cash these days, it does take time to gather the cash and pay out what is owed.

There are a couple higher end restaurants in town that pool all grats and divvy them up based on hours worked. It can serve to enhance the team environment as the better everyone works, the better everyones tips are. This generally doesn't work in a large environment where there are weaker links. I should also say that the servers I know at these establishments are very happy with the money they make.

Other than that, I have nothing to say.

Matt.

Well, you could also argue that that tip pool scenario rewards the lowest common denominator too, right? I don't think I agree with the taking time to get tips from non-cash orders, because that's never been my experience or my daughter's. In my daughter's case she has worked at very busy mid and high end restaurants, pubs and lounges and there has never been a delay in getting tips. What she makes in a shift she goes home with minus the tip out. I asked her about the delay due to debit and credit card payments and she said she had never had that happen nor did she know anyone who had. So I dunno.

But the point here is not the fact that tips are being pooled or whatever is going on, the point is that no one knows what is going on. The servers haven't been told anything -- what the procedure is, when they can expect money, how much money, what proportion of tips, nothing. And that's just wrong. They have worked for three weeks without any indication of when they will get either tips or pay cheques, and I believe that contravenes a number of BC employment standard laws.

[VicHockeyFan]

News flash:

http://www.thestar.c...n-auditors-find

OTTAWA—A blitz by Canada Revenue Agency auditors on an unfortunate group of waiters and waitresses in St. Catharines has exposed “very surprising” amounts of unreported tips and gratuities.

The pilot project targeted 145 servers working in just four restaurants.

Auditors reviewed two years’ worth of income and found that every individual had hidden some portion of their tips from the taxman, with about half reporting no tips whatsoever.

In the end, the blitz flushed out $1.7 million in unreported tips and gratuities — almost $12,000 for each person....

This is interesting:

Whyte said the industry is bracing for a growing labour shortage by 2020, when the pool of 15- to 20-year-olds is expected to decline by 300,000. The shortage is likely to buoy wages over that time, he said.

[sillyia]

VicHockeyFan,

Also, this has been going on for quite some time it appears. This is also Off-Topic somewhat. It is very evident that tips were given when most transactions are made by credit card. Why is it that the servers have no way of knowing what their tips are to begin with at The Beach House as peanutflower stated ?

A small portion of this article:

"Last November, the Canada Revenue Agency announced that a two-year probe, which concludes next March, had so far uncovered about $40 million in so-called “phantom” cash sales in Canadian restaurants—sales that went unreported and for which taxes weren’t remitted to the government. Experts say that’s little more than a tiny fraction of the cash that restaurant owners pocket without paying any taxes. With so much cash changing hands, and employees regularly being paid under the table, tax evasion has become the crime du jour of the restaurant business. And the methods are considerably more sophisticated than even the construction industry’s notorious aversion to receipts.

The CRA landed its most high-profile catch to date late last year, charging 11 people in B.C. in what it alleges was a large-scale tax fraud scheme at four Vancouver-area sushi restaurants. The restaurants were accused of using electronic sales-suppression software, more commonly known as a “zapper,” to systematically delete cash-sales records from electronic cash registers. The software, though illegal, is often sold by the same companies that make point-of-sale systems for cash registers. (Two manufacturers in Quebec and another in B.C. have been accused of making and distributing zappers.) The programs cost about $500 and are usually distributed on CDs or USB keys so they can be removed to avoid detection by auditors inspecting the registers themselves. With a few simple commands, a zapper can completely reconstruct a restaurant’s sales reports after making cash sales disappear, rendering the manipulation nearly impossible to uncover."


Continue…


http://www2.macleans...revenue-agency/

[OSJ]

yes yes, which is why such a tip pool scenario doesn't work as well in large environments where there is a LCD. Small, higher end places don't often have a LCD, everyone fires on all cylinders all the time and works as a team. It evens out the ****ty nights. I have no comment on how the restaurant in question is running, because I've never been.

It is the norm for servers to leave with whatever cash is available at the end of their shift, but virtually never in my experience over the last decade has it been the full amount, or even close to. Generally, servers will tip out cash to support staff (bar, host, busser) at the end of the day, submit their cash out, balance it, take what cash is left and the remainder will come back at a later point as a due-back. A little envelope, off the books of course, of cash. Most servers don't complain about the necessary delay because tax-free income is pretty nice to have, even a week late. I think places with a lower average guest cheque (less than $20) probably have a higher rate of cash payment so operate differently. Places with a $40 AGC really don't operate with much cash. Once you get into the cycle, you are getting grats on a regular basis so it's not an issue. I understand going to the first week of employment without receiving money can be annoying.

Also, a 5 or 6 day delay between the cut-off and pay day can mean a new employee can go nearly 3 weeks without getting a cheque. For example, if cut off is today July 7th, and pay day is next Friday the 13th and you work your first shift tomorrow July 8, then you will not see a paycheque until July 27, for the pay period July 8-21. All perfectly legit, proper even.

Since nearly everyone pays with CC or debit these days there is no cash, or very little, to take home at the end of the day. Getting the majority of your grats a few days or a week later is certainly not uncommon. Of course I can't speak to your experience, only mine.

My wish is not to argue about this, only to let people not in the industry know that waiting a few days or a week to get your cash isn't uncommon, because I don't think most people actually know how restaurants work.

Matt.

my servers leave there shift every day with their full amount of tips. Always have and always will. I dont see or touch their money. With a large enough float there is never a problem with this. I have my Bartenders seperate their tips with every transaction. So if a visa slip says a $5 tip, then they pull $5 cash out of there till and put it in their drawer.
it's been that way for the almost 14 years i have been at the pub!

[spanky123]

I would think that with such a high percentage of bills being paid by credit/debit these days, this isn't a difficult calculation for the CRA. If the restaurant isn't declaring tips as part of their wages paid then the tips simply remain part of the income for the restaurant. Total wages paid should be right on the T4.

[G-Man]

Wow the industry must have changed a lot since 2003 when I left. A server's tips were the server's. A certain amount was expected to be tipped out to support staff. Heaven help those that did not tip out enough to them. As a former restaurant manager I would have never have come between a server and their tips. Good servers should make more than poor ones that is why the tip is there.

[VicHockeyFan]

I would think that with such a high percentage of bills being paid by credit/debit these days, this isn't a difficult calculation for the CRA. If the restaurant isn't declaring tips as part of their wages paid then the tips simply remain part of the income for the restaurant. Total wages paid should be right on the T4.

No, that's not the way it works. Tips that are recorded, as they are part of an electronic (credit or debit) bill still are not recorded as staff wages or restaurant income. Even with s strict accounting of the disbursements, this is not required to be disclosed to CRA or ever recorded as restaurant revenue or employee wages. It's straight in and then back out, no recording except for the restaurant to keep track of the disbursements out to staff.

I'm with OSJ, the darned restaurant/pub only has to keep a decent cash float on hand, and they can pay out each night, at end of each shift. The five pubs I've worked with have all done it this way, as OSJ describes.

To me, that's easier than the management having to go buy cash once a week, then divvy it all up weekly.

Although, I will admit, that bars/pubs probably still have more cash around than restaurants.

[VicHockeyFan]

Wow the industry must have changed a lot since 2003 when I left. A server's tips were the server's. A certain amount was expected to be tipped out to support staff. Heaven help those that did not tip out enough to them. As a former restaurant manager I would have never have come between a server and their tips. Good servers should make more than poor ones that is why the tip is there.

Yes, and a good server knows how to treat the bussers/hostesses happy and on their team too, by tipping them out properly.

But I think it all goes a bit to the general trend of individual employees have less personal responsibility, now management has to or feels they have to manage down to every tiny thing, like the tip pool.

[spanky123]

No, that's not the way it works. Tips that are recorded, as they are part of an electronic (credit or debit) bill still are not recorded as staff wages or restaurant income. Even with s strict accounting of the disbursements, this is not required to be disclosed to CRA or ever recorded as restaurant revenue or employee wages. It's straight in and then back out, no recording except for the restaurant to keep track of the disbursements out to staff.

I'm with OSJ, the darned restaurant/pub only has to keep a decent cash float on hand, and they can pay out each night, at end of each shift. The five pubs I've worked with have all done it this way, as OSJ describes.

To me, that's easier than the management having to go buy cash once a week, then divvy it all up weekly.

Although, I will admit, that bars/pubs probably still have more cash around than restaurants.

Here is the link to the CRA ruling. In the scenario where the employer controls the tip distribution then the tips are part of the income. In the scenario in your biz with you paying out cash each night to the staff then you are right.

http://www.cra-arc.g...nd/tps-eng.html

[LJ]

Here is the link to the CRA ruling. In the scenario where the employer controls the tip distribution then the tips are part of the income. In the scenario in your biz with you paying out cash each night to the staff then you are right.

http://www.cra-arc.g...nd/tps-eng.html

In either case CRA requires you to report the income from tips, it is just that one is eligible for CPP purposes the other isn't.

[VicHockeyFan]

Here is the link to the CRA ruling. In the scenario where the employer controls the tip distribution then the tips are part of the income. In the scenario in your biz with you paying out cash each night to the staff then you are right.

http://www.cra-arc.g...nd/tps-eng.html

Direct Tips

Direct tips are gratuities that are paid directly by the client to the employee and that are not subject to any of the forms of control by the employer as mentioned above under the heading controlled tips. The following are some examples of direct tips:

A client leaves money on the table at the end of the meal and the server keeps the whole amount;
A client gives a tip directly to a bellhop, door person, car attendant, porter; etc.
Tips pooled and/or shared among employees in a manner determined by the employees (as opposed to the employer);
When paying the bill by credit card, a client includes an amount for a tip on the credit card and the employer returns the tip amount in cash to the employee;
When paying the bill by debit card, a client includes an amount for a tip and the employer returns the tip amount in cash to the employee;

But OSJ and I describe my highlighted situation, and a previous poster says the employer goes and buys cash for the employees.

The only question is who came up with the rules of the pool. OSJ and I describe a pool arrived at by employees, the restaurant that started this discussion is the other way.

[kenjh]

from my side ..I try never to pay with debit ...if I do I always leave cash for the waitress/waiter ..but only for good service ..Ricky's on Admirals has crappy service ,and slow ..I try them every 5 or 6 months ..but have given up on them ..do they get charged on what they should have made on tips ?? if they get an average from CRA ..well it's just unfair..

[Mike K.]

I think that's absolutely poor practice. It takes away incentive to provide good service, when the reward comes days or weeks later.

Poor practice or not, a business that deals nearly 100% with debit or credit card transactions doesn't have cash on hand to divvy up at the end of the day.

[VicHockeyFan]

Poor practice or not, a business that deals nearly 100% with debit or credit card transactions doesn't have cash on hand to divvy up at the end of the day.

What if three people that night want to pay with $100 bills, for their $15 dinners? Do they run out of cash?

Come on, every business has a few hundred of cash in the safe or float lock-up, and even the most debit/credit-using-client restaurant takes in several hundred dollars in cash each day.

They have the money, maybe they don't have management they can trust to access it. I mean, even if this theoretical restaurant deals nearly 100% in plastic, they can still implement a system where they have enough cash for tip payouts. They have a bank.

[G-Man]

When I used to serve we had to carry and manage our own float.

[Marc]

I'm jumping into this thread late and thus have a ton points to add.

please take note that it's 1:30 am and I have no desire to proofread my ramblings *

>We use a tip pool system and I strongly believe in it. It ensures better service as it is in the interest of all of that staff that all of the customers are looked after. It's a system that hopefully avoids the "they are not in my section so I will ignore them" attitude that sometimes occurs.

>The tip pool is done by the staff using set percentages. that means that each server bartender gets a pre-determined percentage, as does the busser and food runner.

>Since we use a tip pool, we only have one cash float but seldom have we had a situation where we needed to provide more change than is in the float. The couple of times that it has happened we've been lucky that either one of the staff or myself has had the money to help out. Most of our customers pay with either a credit or debit card. Actually our gross cash every month is -5%. I have to go to the bank every day or two to withdraw cash to pay out the tips. (It's illegal for a restaurant to use the tip money in my bank account that the credit card company deposited there to pay my bills). When we first opened in 2001 I had to make cash deposits every couple of weeks. I don't think I've made one since 2004.

>The percentages paid out in the tip pool are based on the tips collected. Many businesses have the servers pay a percentage of their sales out to the support staff (bussers, food runners, kitchen staff etc) but that method penalizes the server in the event of a small or non-tip (stiffing a server could actually cost that server money in certain restaurants)

*I lied. I checked the spelling.