77 replies to this topic

[cakeman]

So through almost the entire 90's I worked downtown in the 600 block of Yates. Yeah, Scotts diner was a little questionable, but generally I remember a fairly busy downtown, with little to no ground floor vacancies (except the corner at Yates/Broad, until the glass blowing place moved in). I remember it being relatively clean, comfortable to be in.

This afternoon I fell prey to some false advertising and popped downtown to check out 'lots of old school camera lenses' at the junk shop in the 700 block of Johnson (they had none).

As I went through 700 Yates, I was surprised by what appeared to be a fair number of empty, very dirty storefronts.. Yates onto Douglas, then up Johnson, and onto Blanshard before I found some parking..

Heading down 700 Johnson I was again struck by how trashy it all looked.. again, a few large empty, dirty vacancies. The junk shop certainly didnt help things with big bars across the entrance and either a couple sex dolls or mannequins stuck to their facade..

Full disclosure, I dont go down there as it has very little to interest me.. but man, do I ever feel disinclined to head down again.. The addition of the 7-11s on Govt and on Douglas/Johnson really dont help either.

Im a big guy, so wouldnt feel nervous walking past homeless or dealers or whatever.. but I cant imagine being a tourist and stumbling into this.. eew.

cakes..

[zinkerled]

Having to drive all the way around a block to find a parking space must have taken quite a toll on you. To use two small, slightly seedy blocks (the only ones I can even think of) to paint the whole downtown as 'dumpy' is ridiculous. I don't know how many other downtowns you've seen but ours is one of the nicest and safest around.

[Bob Fugger]

Having to drive all the way around a block to find a parking space must have taken quite a toll on you. To use two small, slightly seedy blocks (the only ones I can even think of) to paint the whole downtown as 'dumpy' is ridiculous. I don't know how many other downtowns you've seen but ours is one of the nicest and safest around.

I disagree. Downtown is pretty cracky, imho. The quadrant of Fort to Belleville and Cook to the Inner Harbour are OK. View Street and northwards, I wouldn't go after dark - and I too am a burly dude with whom most folk don't mess. Whether it is actually safe or not doesn't really matter - it feels unsafe, which is enough to kill a downtown. Here's an example the kind of bull$hit you deal with downtown - and we all know - everyone of us on here - that this is not a one-off: https://www.facebook...151915810230599

Does this seem like the "nicest and safest [downtown] around?" Nope. I'll stick to my urban villages, thank you very much.

[Baro]

Burger kings fights are the height of class.

[G-Man]

Please people. Wont go north of View Street? Wow all of you need to get out more. I mean is this just some sort of joke or are you guys some sorts of internet dwellers that don't go outside?

[zinkerled]

Here's an example the kind of bull$hit you deal with downtown - and we all know - everyone of us on here - that this is not a one-off: https://www.facebook...151915810230599

Thanks Bob, I stand corrected, that video will give me nightmares tonight. I'm glad you made it out of there in one piece. And yes, everything north of View feels extremely dangerous at night. I wouldn't set foot in old town past 11pm without at least two male friends. Centennial Square is completely infested with wild-eyed sex couples and china town is a hovel of pimps and asian street gangs.

[Bob Fugger]

Please people. Wont go north of View Street? Wow all of you need to get out more. I mean is this just some sort of joke or are you guys some sorts of internet dwellers that don't go outside?

Perhaps "won't go after dark" does sound a bit xenophobic and paranoid. Let me recharacterize what I mean: of all the choices that I have for where I can spend my free time, that particular area if downtown is not high on my list. It has little to offer. And it's cracky.

And maybe that's what it boils down to - economics. Downtown has to compete for my free time with other activities and areas. With a finite amount of free time, there are what I perceive to be other higher value choices. I'm sure if I want some heroin and/or a cheap handjob, that part of town would be top of the list.

[Bob Fugger]

Thanks Bob, I stand corrected, that video will give me nightmares tonight. I'm glad you made it out of there in one piece. And yes, everything north of View feels extremely dangerous at night. I wouldn't set foot in old town past 11pm without at least two male friends. Centennial Square is completely infested with wild-eyed sex couples and china town is a hovel of pimps and asian street gangs.

You should bring the straw man you just created out of my argument. He'll protect you.

[pherthyl]

Here's an example the kind of bull$hit you deal with downtown - and we all know - everyone of us on here - that this is not a one-off: https://www.facebook...151915810230599

Does this seem like the "nicest and safest [downtown] around?" Nope. I'll stick to my urban villages, thank you very much.

I don't think "cracky" means what you think it means...

It's certainly not two teenagers arguing in a fast food joint. Which I'm sure never happens in your urban village. Teenagers probably don't exist there.

[zinkerled]

Whether it is actually safe or not doesn't really matter - it feels unsafe, which is enough to kill a downtown.

I think what kills a downtown is people scaring others away by making them think it's a frightening place after sundown. If you don't like the vibrancy and excitement of a downtown then yes, stick to Fairfield Plaza, but don't hurt downtown businesses by telling people in feels cracky and dangerous. It's not true at all.

[Bob Fugger]

I don't think "cracky" means what you think it means...

It's certainly not two teenagers arguing in a fast food joint. Which I'm sure never happens in your urban village. Teenagers probably don't exist there.

No, I'm pretty sure I know what it means, do you?

As for the rest of your comment, is everyone tonight incapable making a proper argument? I'm getting nothing but straw tonight.

[Bob Fugger]

I think what kills a downtown is people scaring others away by making them think it's a frightening place after sundown. If you don't like the vibrancy and excitement of a downtown then yes, stick to Fairfield Plaza, but don't hurt downtown businesses by telling people in feels cracky and dangerous. It's not true at all.

If people draw that conclusion from my opinion, so be it. I've not made anyone do or think anything. As for downtown feeling cracky and dangerous, what's untrue about that? I go to that part of town and those are the feelings it evokes. Are you suggesting that that is not my opinion?

As for characterizing that area as vibrant and exciting, whatever floats your boat. I don't find getting constantly accosted for spare change and cigarettes and getting spit on and cursed at by strung out junkies particularly vibrant or exciting, myself.

[zinkerled]

As for characterizing that area as vibrant and exciting, whatever floats your boat. I don't find getting constantly accosted for spare change and cigarettes and getting spit on and cursed at by strung out junkies particularly vibrant or exciting, myself.

What I'm suggesting is that you don't know what you're talking about, not that you aren't entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you haven't been in the area since the homeless shelters moved out over a year ago. I didn't think it was particularly bad before, but now I hardly ever see people strung out on drugs or selling drugs or acting aggressive or any of that type of behavior. Maybe you have too many old memories of walking past Street Link and 700 Johnson (Our Place I believe it was) still in your head? They aren't there any more.

[Bob Fugger]

What I'm suggesting is that you don't know what you're talking about, not that you aren't entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you haven't been in the area since the homeless shelters moved out over a year ago. I didn't think it was particularly bad before, but now I hardly ever see people stung out on drugs or selling drugs or acting aggressive or any of that type of behavior. Maybe you have too many old memories of walking past Street Link and 700 Johnson (Our Place I believe it was) still in your head? They aren't there any more.

Supposing I accept what you say at face value. Relative to most CRD denizens, do you think that my perception of downtown is in the minority or the majority view? Because it is perception that counts in this case.

[zinkerled]

Supposing I accept what you say at face value. Relative to most CRD denizens, do you think that my perception of downtown is in the minority or the majority view? Because it is perception that counts in this case.

Everything north of VIEW ST? Definitely the minority view. I do suspect however that the majority shares your perception of what used to be the problem areas, not realizing there's been a lot of recent improvement. Nobody offers to sell drugs on Yates St anymore for instance. I remember two or three years ago you couldn't walk east to the movie theaters without being offered all the major street drugs. Not any more. And with the shelters gone (not to get into the politics of that) I hardly ever see people visibly high on drugs anymore, and I live and work in the area. I also never see anyone getting assaulted, the only fights are between drunk guys getting out the bar at 2 am.

[zinkerled]

Sorry, East to the movie theatres, not North.

[zinkerled]

I think a big change has been the recent shift from hard street drugs to prescription drugs, shifting a lot of drug related problems out of downtown.

[G-Man]

I agree you do not see near as much open drug peddling as you used to. I have not been asked to buy drugs in years. It used to be that you couldn't walk three blocks downtown without someone whispering a bizarre name for a drug to you.

[gumgum]

I am actually astonished how much things have improved downtown.

[Bob Fugger]

I am actually astonished how much things have improved downtown.

Well, don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if my perception is a misperception. But that's kinda the problem: we remember how bad it was. Certainly, Fernwood suffered the same problem - arguably, the gentrification was punctuated and Fernwood "arrived" with the culmination of that recent NY Times article.

Perhaps the City should use some of its considerable communications budget to begin an awareness campaign. Something along the lines of, "Downtown Victoria: not as $hitty as you think it is" or "Downtown Victoria: now with 50% less panhandling."