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Wow, is it just me or is downtown looking dumpy..


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#61 Mike K.

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:17 AM

Residences? Not residents until they are occupied, and there are a whole lot of unoccupied residences around the CRD these days.


And you have the stats to back that up, I suppose, or are you another one of those individuals who sits outside a condo building at 11PM and counts the number of lit up windows? :)

I find it comical that downtown Nanaimo has been metioned positively twice in this thread. Sure, its better now that the convention centre was built, there seems to be less drug/gang activity on that crescent with the Cambie, but its terrible overall. A&B Sound is an eyesore, the Pacifica is an empty joke, and the restaurants are all a big meh. Acme? That martini place? Modern Cafe?


Nanaimo, aka "Surrey by the Sea" :farmer:

Remember how a couple of months back Nanaimo's chamber of commerce came out swinging with the statement that Nanaimo is now the Island's biggest "city," because technically Saanich is a district and not a "city," and because technically Victoria is made of 13 municipalities and as such is smaller than Nanaimo? I love all the stuff they come up with to draw a little bit of attention to themselves :)

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#62 pherthyl

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:34 AM

So is your argument. Why don't you debate me on the issue instead of zeroing in on a minor aspect and using that to invalidate my opinion?


Because that's the only piece of evidence you've produced to support your point so far. If you want to make the point that Victoria is cracky and dangerous, you're going to have to come up with better evidence. Maybe video of actual crackheads, maybe videos of violent fights (rather than a couple slappy girls) out on the street. Maybe stats on complaints/incidents/muggings downtown compared to other cities or compared to the outlying communities.

Of course, if all you're saying is that in your opinion you don't like downtown, then that's not debatable at all.

#63 Mike K.

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:43 AM

Yesterday evening an older Scottish-Canadian, going by his strong accent, accosted a young woman with a child and a dog on Douglas Street. He felt dogs shouldn't be allowed on sidewalks. Luckily my friends intervened and managed to dissuade him from getting overly violent and he eventually backed down but not before pushing the young woman. He wouldn't admit that he was in the wrong to demand she not allow her dog to remain on the sidewalk. Eventually he got on a bus to sleep off his drunkenness somewhere in Oak Bay. Senseless and unprovoked violent behaviour by ...a senior citizen.

Long story short violent idiots with a little bit too much booze come in all shapes and sizes and from all backgrounds and neighbourhoods. I'd be inclined to think that when he got off the bus at his final destination he was no less an a@@hole on a quiet neighbourhood street than he was downtown.

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#64 Holden West

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:48 AM

^I hate those stories because that poor woman may be afraid to come downtown again. Yet, someone intervened immediately, and that is often the case when you are surrounded by thousands of decent people in a busy urban area. Would help have arrived so quickly on a suburban side street?
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#65 Mike K.

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:50 AM

Both her and her child must have been traumatized. But luckily, as you said, there were bystanders nearby who would have none of it.

In fact this situation got so out of hand so quickly that my friends had all but given up hope that they would avoid a physical altercation with him. Luckily at the last minute the man realized he was outnumbered and backed down. And like I said, I wouldn't doubt that when he got off that bus the next innocent individual who came across his path and looked good for the picking would face an altercation.

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#66 Mike K.

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:54 AM

Btw, the incident occurred just after 8PM. The sun was still shining.

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#67 sdwright.vic

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:45 AM

Why anyone thinks the above has anything to do with Victoria and not just society in general, anywhere amazes me.
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#68 Mike K.

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 11:49 AM

Suburbanites like to blame downtown Victoria for downtown Victoria's problems. Meanwhile suburbanites from quaint cul-de-sacs are just as likely to act out in the downtown core as is a street person camping out in downtown Victoria. It's so painfully obvious that crime knows no borders and isn't limited to any one group, but in our region the consensus by many is crime is a downtown problem perpetrated by downtown residents and the downtown street population. Period. No ifs or buts.

Can you imagine if Reena Virk or Kimberly Proctor had been killed in downtown Victoria by kids living in downtown? All hell would have broken lose. Meanwhile multiple suburban teenagers have been murdered in Victoria's suburbs by their peers and this region still overlooks the fact that crime is a regional problem not constrained to any one area.

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#69 aastra

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:07 PM

It's true, when stuff happens downtown, people tend to blame downtown. But when your car gets broken into at a mall parking lot, you don't vow to never shop at a mall again.

#70 cakeman

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:17 PM

Hah, wow.

Make a general observation, go away for a few days and come back to a hornet swarm.

Zinkerled, I'll be sure to clear any opinions by you before I post in the future. Do you own property down there or something?

Yates/Douglas is what I consider 'downtown'. As I said in the first post, thats where I spent the entire 90's. I'll stand by my opinion that compared to then, when I recall few if any vacancies in 700 Yates/Johnson, it's looking dumpy. It's not even just the vacancies, but the condition of those buildings that are vacant... it accentuates the atmosphere of .. neglect? .. malaise is too strong a word, 'meh' covers it pretty well I suppose.

Years of travel for work and recreation have let me see many downtowns across the US and a handful or two in Europe. I was struck by a similar thought 6-8 years ago in downtown Spokane.. Blocks of empty properties on what should've been a busy downtown street..

What are the boundaries of 'downtown' that people are using to beat us detractors with? Perhaps I should say that Government St and Douglas near the bus depot are more tacky than dumpy? If we pop just outside of Chinatown, am I allowed to call that dumpy?

No, I dont expect some sort of storybook village. Generally speaking, I expect a downtown core to be the busiest space, with few if any empty buildings and then moving out from that core we see things get smaller / cheesier / dumpier whatever. For me, Yates/Douglas is that core.

Oh, and 7/11s (and Macs to a lesser extent, less exterior lighting in company colors I think..) are always going to bring a neighborhood down, In My Opinion (if thats ok)

cakes..

#71 Mike K.

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 04:03 PM

No doubt about it, there are lots of buildings in downtown Victoria that should be knocked down and redeveloped. I'm not even saying reno'd, just knocked down and redeveloped. Period.

I'm speaking mostly to the 50's-60's era one or two storey edifices that have far outlived their usefulness and which must look bland and hokey to the tourist eye.

Here are some examples:
Shoppers
Douglas @ Cormorant - luckily these will go when the Roth Site is redeveloped
Antique Row - so much of Fort is disposable architecture at its very best

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#72 G-Man

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 05:24 PM

I worked at brickyard pizza in the 90s and I can assure you that area is far better and downtown generally is.

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#73 dirtydeeds

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 07:14 PM

Oh, and 7/11s (and Macs to a lesser extent, less exterior lighting in company colors I think..) are always going to bring a neighborhood down, In My Opinion (if thats ok)
cakes..

I felt that way too as soon as they started moving into downtown lately. I have had no problems with downtown except for by the theatres I find there is regularly people loitering around with brown bags in all states of consciousness. With the wife and myself I don't have a problem with it but if I am taking the kiddies I have started looking at the theatres in the burbs or Silvercity to avoid it.

#74 dasmo

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 08:24 PM

@cakeman
Sounds to me like you haven't really observed that the "bad zone" shifts around. The spot you hung around in the 90's is now the "worst spot" down town. Sounds like you got lured to visit the new funky junk store on Johnson. Neighbour to the York hotel. That particular zone is not so upscale. In the end a downtown also has to cater to people of less means than others and this zone seems to be it. No big deal, it's just less aesthetic than other spots, or "dumpy". To paint the entire downtown with that brush is just not a correct statement. Maybe go for a walk next weekend and rediscover it? Get a coffee at Habit in the atrium on Yates and Blanshard, shop for some cloths along lower Johnson. Have a beer on the patio of Canoe, get a liege waffle at wanna waffle in market square, Grab some brunch at Mole on pandora and government...
Pandora and government used to be real nasty. Now it's one of my favorite spots. Mole, Bliss, Fantan alley, MEC, the fixed up centennial square ( I never thought I'd see that horrible restaurant removed)...

#75 aastra

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 07:01 AM

Are the newer downtown 7-11 stores a bad thing everywhere or just in downtown Victoria?

#76 Mike K.

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 09:22 AM

Sounds to me like you haven't really observed that the "bad zone" shifts around.


Dasmo, you nailed! In the 1990's the "bad zone" was Douglas at Johnson (back then it was literally called the candy shop and cops would stake out that corner from top units of nearby commercial buildings). Courtnay Walls (sp?) was murdered at the street corner.

In the late 1990's and in the early 2000's it was the strip along Centennial Square on Douglas, and then it moved to the block of Yates between Douglas and Broad and Douglas between View and Yates. It has now dispersed more towards the north east area of downtown but the seedy element of youth drug culture still remains along busy areas of the downtown core.

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#77 PulpVictor

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:35 PM

[quote name='Mike K.']And you have the stats to back that up, I suppose, or are you another one of those individuals who sits outside a condo building at 11PM and counts the number of lit up windows? :)



I have never sat outside a condo building. I do however, spend a lot of time on the MLS. Today, there are 1466 condos for sale in greater Victoria.

#78 aastra

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:08 PM

How many houses are for sale?

 



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