11042 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Right, the disruption angle.

[nagel]

The whole purpose of the protected bike lanes are to enable less experienced cyclists to cycle in areas they otherwise wouldn't feel comfortable riding in. Building them on quiet side streets like View Street would be besides the point, as people are already relatively comfortable cycling on those streets with or without lanes so protected lanes here would only be a marginal improvement. Quiet side streets do not need bike separation as there is very little traffic to need to separate from and cyclists can comfortably ride with the flow of traffic. The cycling lanes make for a much better pedestrian experience on Fort and Pandora as well as they add an extra buffer between the sidewalk on the traffic. Also, there's nothing of interest on View Street, so it does not take me anywhere I actually need to go. 

There's a small corner in my heart for the effort you took to write this post.  Many of us have been there and done that and are now jaded by the reality of this thread, where such on-topic and well thought out comments drift away like dust in the wind.  Actually maybe the best thing that came of this is now I have a good song in my head.

[nagel]

My turn, mostly true story.

 

I drove down Pandora yesterday at 5pm and breezed from Vancouver to Douglas.  Feeling good, I went to turn right, but was miffed that I could not do so in my usual carefree manner.  In fact I had to wait a whole 15 seconds while 8 entitled cyclists used their rainbow unicorn secret club bike lanes.  I literally felt my blood boil as I had to just sit there and watch them go before proceeding.  This feeling lasted with me the rest of the day.  Roads were supposed to be designed for ME.

 

signed, angry Saanich man

[Mike K.]

Feels better now, right?

[nagel]

Feels better now, right?

Today much better.  I took the unicorn lanes.  No hate inside at all.

[nagel]

Was actually thinking yesterday how much net new bike lane there actually is in the city of Victoria over Lisa's 4 year term.  Probably far less than 2km, since there used to be bike lanes on Douglas between Herald and Bay and they were removed.  

[Nparker]

...net new bike lane...in the city of Victoria over Lisa's 4 year term. Probably far less than 2 km...

At a cost of $3.5 million/km. 

[nagel]

At a cost of $3.5 million/km. 

Chortle all you want.  Traffic control devices are VERY expensive and labour is sparse.  There's high correlation between disliking bike lanes and thinking they cost too much.  I have never heard "I like the bike lanes but would prefer they only cost X".  There's also a common misunderstanding between current and capital costs.  Given that the ~6 million spent to date is actually capital, with a fairly lengthy useful life, it's actually good value for money as opposed to spending millions on an artificial lake for a political event. I could go on, but again the complaints are a reason to an end (no bike lanes), not the reason itself.

[rmpeers]

Chortle all you want. Traffic control devices are VERY expensive and labour is sparse. There's high correlation between disliking bike lanes and thinking they cost too much. I have never heard "I like the bike lanes but would prefer they only cost X". There's also a common misunderstanding between current and capital costs. Given that the ~6 million spent to date is actually capital, with a fairly lengthy useful life, it's actually good value for money as opposed to spending millions on an artificial lake for a political event. I could go on, but again the complaints are a reason to an end (no bike lanes), not the reason itself.

I wouldn't be so miffed about the cost overruns if the result was an inclusive road design that safely accomodated the needs of everyone, including public transit. In particular, if Fort felt safe, I could live with it.

Edited by rmpeers, 12 October 2018 - 09:30 AM.

[Brantastic]

On the weekend I went back to my hometown of Port Alberni for Thanksgiving and found it quite funny listening to them bemoan the high cost of their new bike lanes. They got an entire network that spans most of the routes in the city for a mere $50,000 (+$50,000 from the province). Now, it's a comparably weak/outdated bike lane system as the only changes made were painting lanes where the roads were already obnoxiously wide and painting a lot of sharrows wherever lane reductions or road widening would be required, but it's pretty decent for a city of its size/density. Port Alberni is of course a lot smaller but it still works out to proportionally less money for a network that spans their entire city. 

People will complain about the cost no matter how much it is.

[spanky123]

Chortle all you want.  Traffic control devices are VERY expensive and labour is sparse.  There's high correlation between disliking bike lanes and thinking they cost too much.  I have never heard "I like the bike lanes but would prefer they only cost X". 

 

I think that there is a high correlation between liking bikes lanes and not having to pay for them!

[nagel]

It's not like if some rich suitor just personally funded the entire bike lane network the haters would go home quietly.

[nerka]

Some of these pro-bicycle-lane posts border on full blown comedy routines.

Some of the anti bicycle lane posts border on parody.

 

"I totally support bicycle lanes as long as they don't inconvenience a single person and as long as they don't take up any space on any street, and as long as they are free to build. And by the way did I mention that I hate having to look at overweight 45 y.o. men in overly tight Lycra. And why aren't cyclists licenced because more government programs are ALWAYS great."

[nerka]

My turn, mostly true story.

 

I drove down Pandora yesterday at 5pm and breezed from Vancouver to Douglas.  Feeling good, I went to turn right, but was miffed that I could not do so in my usual carefree manner.  In fact I had to wait a whole 15 seconds while 8 entitled cyclists used their rainbow unicorn secret club bike lanes.  I literally felt my blood boil as I had to just sit there and watch them go before proceeding.  This feeling lasted with me the rest of the day.  Roads were supposed to be designed for ME.

 

signed, angry Saanich man

Thank god you came to the right place. This is like literally a support group for your situation. You poor poor man.

[nagel]

Some of the anti bicycle lane posts border on parody.

 

"I totally support bicycle lanes as long as they don't inconvenience a single person and as long as they don't take up any space on any street, and as long as they are free to build. And by the way did I mention that I hate having to look at overweight 45 y.o. men in overly tight Lycra. And why aren't cyclists licenced because more government programs are ALWAYS great."

Don't forget if any of those Lycra-clad men ever complain about said bike lanes I will denounce them as totally unnecessary.

[rmpeers]

People will complain about the cost no matter how much it is.

Not true. If they came in on budget and the design was flawed, my position would be that maybe they should have spent more money and sprung for, say, a tape measure and also paid someone to Google "how wide is a bus?" etc.

If they came in over-budget but were fully inclusive, I'd grumble a littĺe but take comfort in the fact that they work, and get back to grumbling about how the mayor tried to silence the the voices of sexual harrassment victims, etc.

As it is, we have the worst of both worlds.

Hammond looks like someone who wants to help heal the city and doesn't thrive on creating unnecessary conflict or get his kicks from pitting people against each other. I'm pretty certain he can move our cycling infrastructure forward in a more inclusive manner.

[Nparker]

...Hammond looks like someone who wants to help heal the city and doesn't thrive on creating unnecessary conflict or get his kicks from pitting people against each other. I'm pretty certain he can move our cycling infrastructure forward in a more inclusive manner.

If you believe some of the Helps boosters, should Stephen Hammond win the mayor's seat, he will force the homeless to begin tearing out all existing bike lanes as of midnight October 21, 2018. They will be immediately replaced with Le Mans style raceways and of course there will be no speed limit.

[Mike K.]

One of the most amusing outcomes of the new lanes is the "lane" rage that is starting to happen. People taking over the slow pokes, cyclists not letting others pass, errant pedestrians or mobility-challenged individuals slowly moving along the lanes, lol. I've see a few instances and awesome how human nature takes over regardless of the circumstance and the kumbaya image something may have.

[DustMagnet]

One of the most amusing outcomes of the new lanes is the "lane" rage that is starting to happen. People taking over the slow pokes, cyclists not letting others pass, errant pedestrians or mobility-challenged individuals slowly moving along the lanes, lol. I've see a few instances and awesome how human nature takes over regardless of the circumstance and the kumbaya image something may have.

So it's become a microcosm of the roadways in general... I blame the humans.

[nagel]

People are selfish jerks.  I prefer the selfish jerks on 20 pound bikes than the ones threatening to flatten me in large trucks.