Jump to content

      



























Photo

[Bicycles] Bike lanes and cycling infrastructure in Victoria and the south Island


  • Please log in to reply
11042 replies to this topic

#7401 shoeflack

shoeflack
  • Member
  • 2,861 posts

Posted 07 January 2019 - 04:16 PM

Actually it is different. Cars drivers are conditioned and trained to yield way to pedestrians at those, as well the blind can hear a car a lot more than they can a car.

I can see and can't get bike to yield to me.

 

And yet somehow people still get hit in them. It's almost as if there are just as many bad drivers as there are bad cyclists. The holier than thou driver vs cyclist argument is a bit thin.


Edited by shoeflack, 07 January 2019 - 04:28 PM.

  • Brantastic likes this

#7402 Jackerbie

Jackerbie
  • Member
  • 3,776 posts
  • LocationRichmond, BC

Posted 07 January 2019 - 04:32 PM

Actually it is different. Cars drivers are conditioned and trained to yield way to pedestrians at those, as well the blind can hear a car a lot more than they can a car.

I can see and can't get bike to yield to me.

 

And how is a cyclist not yielding the fault of the City? The pedestrian crossing is raised. It has signage. The pavement is painted.

 

Nobody can legislate common sense and courtesy.


  • shoeflack likes this

#7403 James Bay walker

James Bay walker

    CustomUserTitle

  • Member
  • 638 posts
  • LocationJames Bay

Posted 07 January 2019 - 04:37 PM

 

NParker - how about supporting cycling infrastructure because bikes are the most efficient form of mass human transportation in existence? Yep, more efficient than walking. And powered by renewable energy (food). In today's energy-hungry world, when most vehicles are simply used for carrying around (usually) one person, surely that argument must have merit?

http://www.explorato...umanpower1.html

Cycling, being exercise, also has positive externalities - improved health and decreased pollution, resulting in reduced mortality and health care expenses.

Many of these folks probably could do their trips by bike. Hence the push for more bicycle trips.

Cycling "more efficient" than walking? "improved health"??

I've read where walking burns five times the energy that cycling does to travel the same distance. To me, this means cylists are losing 80% of their exercise potential per mile by lazily cycling around instead of walking.

And, let's not forget all those cyclists who are badly injured or killed by road traffic (far more than pedestrians, per mile travelled, I'm confident, though I wasn't sure where to look for those stats).

Bicyclists get no sympathy from me -- I've observed barely 1 in 100 stopping at stop signs (instead, they just breeze through, though some do slow down a bit), and really, no day passes without seeing bicyclists zipping along on sidewalks. Sigh! And then there are the ones that refrain from wearing helmets (cycling should require a license that includes passing a minimal intelligence test, hmm?).

jbw

#7404 sdwright.vic

sdwright.vic

    Colwood

  • Member
  • 6,676 posts

Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:35 PM

And yet somehow people still get hit in them. It's almost as if there are just as many bad drivers as there are bad cyclists. The holier than thou driver vs cyclist argument is a bit thin.


How often do people get hit? They cyclist holier that though somebody got last year in the summer is starting to wear thin. One random accident does not make a epidemic.

My ability to stop as a pedestrian for a slower moving cyclist doesn't excuse the fact that I have altercations with cyclists weekly to bi-weekly. My near misses fair outnumber the pedestrian numbers

Maybe I will just stop stopping?
Predictive text and a tiny keyboard are not my friends!

#7405 sdwright.vic

sdwright.vic

    Colwood

  • Member
  • 6,676 posts

Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:38 PM

And how is a cyclist not yielding the fault of the City? The pedestrian crossing is raised. It has signage. The pavement is painted.

Nobody can legislate common sense and courtesy.


Funny how you totally ignore my point about the right-turn slip lane and chirp about common sense.

So here you go. Maybe the entire separate bike lane thingy wouldn't of had to of happened if cyclists would use common sense?
Predictive text and a tiny keyboard are not my friends!

#7406 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 82,943 posts

Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:42 PM

The CRD has replaced its bicycle count figures with range bubbles. What I mean by that is in lieu of an actual count we now see dots, the collection dates are no longer displayed and the figures are bi-directional.

 

What's also interesting is the largest bubble pushed up from 301-500 to 301-700 from May 2018 to October 2018. I don't understand why they couldn't have created a new bubble to indicate 501-700?


  • sdwright.vic and A Girl is No one like this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#7407 Coreyburger

Coreyburger
  • Member
  • 2,864 posts

Posted 07 January 2019 - 10:34 PM

The CRD has replaced its bicycle count figures with range bubbles. What I mean by that is in lieu of an actual count we now see dots, the collection dates are no longer displayed and the figures are bi-directional.

 

No, they didn't. The maps were always range bubbles (I know - I made the base of those maps when I worked for the CRD and ran this program). What did change was the method of counting: it used to be a full intersection count, now it is just a segment (more akin to a hose counter).



#7408 nerka

nerka
  • Member
  • 1,236 posts

Posted 07 January 2019 - 10:43 PM

Cycling "more efficient" than walking?

I've read where walking burns five times the energy that cycling does to travel the same distance.

Cycling requires less energy for the same distance in other words it is more efficient.


  • Brantastic likes this

#7409 nerka

nerka
  • Member
  • 1,236 posts

Posted 07 January 2019 - 10:54 PM

And, let's not forget all those cyclists who are badly injured or killed by road traffic (far more than pedestrians, per mile travelled, I'm confident, though I wasn't sure where to look for those stats).

jbw

Fatality rate per trip is pretty similar in Canada between walking and biking.  That's probably a better way to compare than per mile. But if you compare per mile then being a pedestrian is more dangerous.



#7410 On the Level

On the Level
  • Member
  • 2,891 posts

Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:30 AM

No, they didn't. The maps were always range bubbles (I know - I made the base of those maps when I worked for the CRD and ran this program). What did change was the method of counting: it used to be a full intersection count, now it is just a segment (more akin to a hose counter).

 

I call bogus.  Range Bubbles vs Traffic Counts. 

 

Sorry Coreyburger, but you are too bike special interest to provide any objective counts or inclusive analysis.  


Edited by On the Level, 08 January 2019 - 12:36 AM.

  • sdwright.vic likes this

#7411 nagel

nagel
  • Member
  • 5,751 posts

Posted 08 January 2019 - 07:31 AM

The best of VV.  Attacking someone's professional integrity because they like to ride a bicycle.


  • Coreyburger, Mr Cook Street, thundergun and 5 others like this

#7412 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 82,943 posts

Posted 08 January 2019 - 07:44 AM

No, they didn't. The maps were always range bubbles (I know - I made the base of those maps when I worked for the CRD and ran this program). What did change was the method of counting: it used to be a full intersection count, now it is just a segment (more akin to a hose counter).

Could you point me to the raw bicycle count data that has been traditionally available?

Now I’m not saying the maps are new. I’m saying the removal of the actual counts and providing only (less informative) maps is new, unless somehow I’ve missed the actual counts for October 2018.

Can you expand on how the methodology changed? I’m not sure I understand what you mean. Previously the counts identified the time window (ie 7-9AM) and the direction of travel (ie Douglas at Johnson NB) so data was not an all encompassing tally of cycling activity at an intersection but a detailed breakdown. But now it looks like an all-encompassing tally as there is no data beyond a dot and its size/rough location. Using the current map there is no information on direction of travel, nor specific times.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#7413 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 82,943 posts

Posted 08 January 2019 - 07:55 AM

The best of VV. Attacking someone's professional integrity because they like to ride a bicycle.

Corey is a part of a lobbying and advocacy group that affects how municipal monies are spent. Involvement with that group comes with responsibility and obligations, and along with that the potential for being challenged based on the statements one makes.

Corey’s got what it takes to handle a debate. I don’t think anyone’s worried about him not being able to negotiate a little pressure. Corey doesn’t hide his bias nor should we expect someone in his capacity to do so.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#7414 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 20,960 posts

Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:20 AM

Focus is using video footage to track bike lane usage under their "Victoria Mapping Project". Apparently on a rainy day earlier this month there were more older women using walkers then there were bikes.

 

https://www.focusonvictoria.ca/


  • mbjj likes this

#7415 Jackerbie

Jackerbie
  • Member
  • 3,776 posts
  • LocationRichmond, BC

Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:57 AM

Funny how you totally ignore my point about the right-turn slip lane and chirp about common sense.

So here you go. Maybe the entire separate bike lane thingy wouldn't of had to of happened if cyclists would use common sense?

 

I brought up common sense because your rebuttal was about users, not design: "Drivers are conditioned" to behave a certain way. That's not a difference between the design of a slip lane and the design of a floating bus stop. Both have pedestrian realms separated by a vehicle travel lane with an uncontrolled crosswalk connecting them. Both have pavement or sign markings to indicate that pedestrian can and will cross. The difference, as you pointed out, is that everyone knows what to do at a slip lane. We're accustomed to them because they're all over the place.

 

On your second point, I agree that cyclists need to start behaving a certain way and learn the new rules that come with these bi-directional bike lanes. Having dedicated infrastructure does not absolve people from being unaware of their surroundings.


  • sdwright.vic and nerka like this

#7416 Coreyburger

Coreyburger
  • Member
  • 2,864 posts

Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:57 AM

Could you point me to the raw bicycle count data that has been traditionally available?

Now I’m not saying the maps are new. I’m saying the removal of the actual counts and providing only (less informative) maps is new, unless somehow I’ve missed the actual counts for October 2018.

Can you expand on how the methodology changed? I’m not sure I understand what you mean. Previously the counts identified the time window (ie 7-9AM) and the direction of travel (ie Douglas at Johnson NB) so data was not an all encompassing tally of cycling activity at an intersection but a detailed breakdown. But now it looks like an all-encompassing tally as there is no data beyond a dot and its size/rough location. Using the current map there is no information on direction of travel, nor specific times.

 

The maps never provided exact counts - only ranges. Raw data is available in spreadsheet form, but never in map form. That level of details is simply too hard to display on a map - I spent 5 years trying to figure out a way and never did.

 

As for the change in methodology, it happened after I left the CRD in 2016. I believe the thinking was to align it better with the motor vehicle count work the CRD also does.

 

And as for people attacking me because I am a bike advocate: I have never hidden behind a pseudonym, nor have I have ever hidden who I work for (or used to work for). If VV truly wants to be "Victoria's online cornerstone", being more civil to those with opposing viewpoints would help.


Edited by Coreyburger, 08 January 2019 - 11:12 AM.

  • Mr Cook Street, lanforod, shoeflack and 1 other like this

#7417 Coreyburger

Coreyburger
  • Member
  • 2,864 posts

Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:00 AM

Focus is using video footage to track bike lane usage under their "Victoria Mapping Project". Apparently on a rainy day earlier this month there were more older women using walkers then there were bikes.

 

https://www.focusonvictoria.ca/

 

Quite looking forward to this - unless they cherry pick their data (which I wouldn't put it past them), they are actually likely to find more people biking given the increases in the past two years on the new bike lanes.

 

For reference: Census Canada collected data in May 2016, CRD in Sept-Nov 2017



#7418 spanky123

spanky123
  • Member
  • 20,960 posts

Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:01 AM

^ I am not a supporter of the bike lane infrastructure that we have but FWIW, I have always trusted and valued your opinions and information CB. Like most of the current and former City staff who contribute here, I have no reason to disbelieve what we are being told even if I disagree with it!


  • Coreyburger likes this

#7419 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 82,943 posts

Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:02 AM

Yes the maps are one thing, but the raw data has disappeared and the methodology has only recently changed. The maps were nice to look at but they were/are less useful as a measure of change due to the ranges (299 one year vs 301 the other moves between differently sized dots but in reality the change was immaterial).

 

Last year when I put together a piece on the bicycle count figures the raw data was available, now it's gone.


Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#7420 Coreyburger

Coreyburger
  • Member
  • 2,864 posts

Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:04 AM

Yes the maps are one thing, but the raw data has disappeared and the methodology has only recently changed. The maps were nice to look at but they were/are less useful as a measure of change due to the ranges (299 one year vs 301 the other moves between differently sized dots but in reality the change was immaterial).

 

Last year when I put together a piece on the bicycle count figures the raw data was available, now it's gone.

 

Raw data was also never online - easily requestable but not online.



You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users