11042 replies to this topic

[On the Level]

Here comes the future - from the BC gov "CleanBC Roadmap to 2030" plan:

 

Other than released for political reasons, is this really relevant?  It doesn't align with over 30 years of growth in our community plan being on the Westshore?  With the CoV pet projects unraveling on them, fewer and fewer people are deciding downtown is the place to be, with more and more moving to places like Bear Mountain. 

[Mike K.]

I think our future is 100,000 people between Sooke and Port Renfrew by 2100.

[marks_28]

There are lots of things you can do to achieve this while recognizing suburbia will still exist for the foreseeable future. Encourage/mandate remote working arrangements. More satellite government offices in the West Shore and beyond. Adjust zoning to allow for more commercial spaces in residential areas, allowing more people to make some grocery trips on foot/bike. Improve transit and active transportation infrastructure to give better options for those that do have to travel. Increased density along future rapid transit lines. All of this is still very relevant even to those not living in the CoV.

[freedom_2008]

It is relevant to this thread. In an effort to cut down on carbon emissions the BC gov is signaling that they want to shift more travel, especially short trips, to walking, biking and transit. Of course we’ll see if they are actually serious about this by how many dollars they devote to it in upcoming budgets, but most people say they want urgent action on climate change, especially after the devastating heat, fires and floods this year.
 

Plenty of people will keep driving as usual (like folks who choose to live on Bear Mountain, etc) but for those who want to walk, bike or use transit for some/all trips they should be able to do so readily and safely. The CoV, and to a lesser extent Saanich, are leading the way locally but this is happening in many cities across Canada - Vancouver and Montreal especially but also Kelowna, Calgary, Toronto, Quebec, Halifax, etc.

[Victoria Watcher]

The CoV, and to a lesser extent Saanich, are leading the way locally but this is happening in many cities across Canada - Vancouver and Montreal especially but also Kelowna, Calgary, Toronto, Quebec, Halifax, etc.

 

Are any of these areas actually seeing any increase in public transit use?

[freedom_2008]

Recent transit usage numbers are heavily skewed by Covid restrictions so not that useful. But I was thinking more about active transportation infrastructure when I wrote that.

[Nparker]

I am guessing the bike lanes were pretty packed last Sunday & Monday.

[Victoria Watcher]

Recent transit usage numbers are heavily skewed by Covid restrictions so not that useful. But I was thinking more about active transportation infrastructure when I wrote that.

 

Pre-pandemic was transit usage/share increasing in any of those cities?

 

Calgary:

 

Calgary’s transit ridership saw a nosedive during the pandemic, as did that of most cities. And in Calgary’s case, the drop came on the heels of another decline.  A years-long economic downturn in the oil sector prompted layoffs and bankruptcies that have hollowed out the downtown core. Tens of thousands of jobs vanished in the span of a few years. There were far fewer workers to commute into town each day.

 

 

https://www.theglobe...n-new-mobility/

 

Toronto:

 

While the pandemic is slowly fading in the rearview, TTC ridership has stalled at 50 per cent of pre-pandemic levels. Whether public transit use in the city will ever return to pre-pandemic levels anytime soon is increasingly becoming an open question. It seems strange to contemplate given the TTC was operating at over-capacity before the pandemic.

 

But the Toronto and Region Board of Trade reported last week that office towers in the financial district remain a dead zone, with the volume of weekday workers down by 77 per cent compared to pre-pandemic levels. 

 

The numbers are a little more encouraging outside the core. There, the volume of weekday workers is down by 34 per cent compared to pre-pandemic levels, which is still a significant number.

https://nowtoronto.c...mic-devastation

 

 

Ottawa:

 

Next year's budget is based on 82 per cent ridership on the bus and train on average in 2022, resulting in $166 million in fares. OC Transpo will make no cuts to service in the meantime. Ridership this October, however, was just 41 per cent of pre-pandemic 2019 levels.

 

 

https://ca.news.yaho...-HDSEBOhJci8_so

 

 

Vancouver (late September):

 

Still, overall use of the regional transit system remains significantly lower than it once was. System-wide, TransLink is seeing about 55 per cent of the traffic it saw before the pandemic, though usage varies significantly by route.

 

 

https://bc.ctvnews.c...id-19-1.5598194

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 November 2021 - 02:18 PM.

[marks_28]

Not sure about Sunday, but the bike racks in front of my building were packed on the Monday. Sun had even come out for the ride home. Although I wish I had a proper bike lane to ride - a lot of debris had washed up on the side of the road, and I ended up with a flat on my way home.

[On the Level]

There are lots of things you can do to achieve this while recognizing suburbia will still exist for the foreseeable future. Encourage/mandate remote working arrangements. More satellite government offices in the West Shore and beyond. Adjust zoning to allow for more commercial spaces in residential areas, allowing more people to make some grocery trips on foot/bike. Improve transit and active transportation infrastructure to give better options for those that do have to travel. Increased density along future rapid transit lines. All of this is still very relevant even to those not living in the CoV.

 

Agreed!  Public transit needs to compete with other modes to make it attractive.  If you just social engineer / punish people out of their cars to make transit look like a better alternative then people recognize that.  It harms transit as it reinforces Transit =  shitty transportation.  

 

Take the Westcoast Express for example.  I was happy leaving my car at home.  No stops, way faster and I could relax.  That is vastly different than the "Rapid Bus" model which doesn't resemble anything like the rapid buses on the mainland years ago.  If it stops every block, then it is a slow connector.  

 

Make more services available where people live, which means outside of the city.  We are seeing this today in the news for the Western Speedway grounds.  There is a grocery store, recreation centre/pool on top of Bear Mountain but that could be expanded. 

 

There has been little done on the peninsula and Western Lanford / Sooke.  That is a problem.  Is there one grocery store within walking/biking of Westhills or Royal Bay?  I don't know.

 

It is relevant to this thread. In an effort to cut down on carbon emissions the BC gov is signaling that they want to shift more travel, especially short trips, to walking, biking and transit. Of course we’ll see if they are actually serious about this by how many dollars they devote to it in upcoming budgets, but most people say they want urgent action on climate change, especially after the devastating heat, fires and floods this year.
 

Plenty of people will keep driving as usual (like folks who choose to live on Bear Mountain, etc) but for those who want to walk, bike or use transit for some/all trips they should be able to do so readily and safely. The CoV, and to a lesser extent Saanich, are leading the way locally but this is happening in many cities across Canada - Vancouver and Montreal especially but also Kelowna, Calgary, Toronto, Quebec, Halifax, etc.

 

All of the growth is where walking is limited.  Most in the CRD live where walking is limited.  Downtown is not where it "is at" for reducing carbon emissions.  If you think about it, few people live downtown Victoria so why focus there?  You can pour as much oil asphalt as you want downtown for bike lanes, but fewer and fewer have a reason to go there.  There is an exodus. 

 

Reducing carbon emissions means investing outside of downtown and needs to match the distances / hills those places experience in January....not August.  August and surrounding months should not be the focus as they are low carbon.  November through April.....those miles matter.  The CRD Bike counters should reflect this.  It matters.

[Victoria Watcher]

Agreed!  Public transit needs to compete with other modes to make it attractive.  If you just social engineer / punish people out of their cars to make transit look like a better alternative then people recognize that.  It harms transit as it reinforces Transit =  shitty transportation.  

 

Drivers get backseat in Kelowna's 20-year transportation plan

 

https://www.kelownad...056c5d162c.html

 

 

 

People who live in Kelowna’s southern suburbs should expect traffic congestion to continue indefinitely into the future, a new city transportation plan states.

 

Those who want to avoid long delays on the roads should consider working from home, carpooling or driving outside rush hours, the plan suggests.

 

Although some road improvements are envisioned in the Southwest Mission, such as upgrades to two roundabouts, it’s neither cost-effective nor desirable to make driving to and from the area easier, city planners say.

 

“The reality is the Southwest Mission will continue to experience traffic congestion, as the driving demand from the area exceeds what is feasible to provide in terms of roadway supply,” says a summary of the 20-year transportation plan going to city council on Monday.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 November 2021 - 05:44 PM.

[On the Level]

Drivers get backseat in Kelowna's 20-year transportation plan

 

https://www.kelownad...056c5d162c.html

 

 

 

People who live in Kelowna’s southern suburbs should expect traffic congestion to continue indefinitely into the future, a new city transportation plan states.

 

Those who want to avoid long delays on the roads should consider working from home, carpooling or driving outside rush hours, the plan suggests.

 

Although some road improvements are envisioned in the Southwest Mission, such as upgrades to two roundabouts, it’s neither cost-effective nor desirable to make driving to and from the area easier, city planners say.

 

“The reality is the Southwest Mission will continue to experience traffic congestion, as the driving demand from the area exceeds what is feasible to provide in terms of roadway supply,” says a summary of the 20-year transportation plan going to city council on Monday.

 

 

OK...Southwest is ~13KM and Langford is ~15km to each downtown.  Both will grow and some will take new bike lanes. 

 

The summer doesn't matter as traffic volumes are down from vacations and it is easy to cycle.  What is the plan for November through April?  The middle finger is not a good plan.

[Nparker]

...The middle finger is not a good plan.

To the woke that doesn't matter.

[Mike K.]

It is relevant to this thread. In an effort to cut down on carbon emissions the BC gov is signaling that they want to shift more travel, especially short trips, to walking, biking and transit. Of course we’ll see if they are actually serious about this by how many dollars they devote to it in upcoming budgets, but most people say they want urgent action on climate change, especially after the devastating heat, fires and floods this year.

Plenty of people will keep driving as usual (like folks who choose to live on Bear Mountain, etc) but for those who want to walk, bike or use transit for some/all trips they should be able to do so readily and safely. The CoV, and to a lesser extent Saanich, are leading the way locally but this is happening in many cities across Canada - Vancouver and Montreal especially but also Kelowna, Calgary, Toronto, Quebec, Halifax, etc.

The volume of vehicles on the roads driving kids to school and back is quite the thing. Dozens of schools, thousands of vehicles filling their parking lots every day, despite the kids living well within walking distance.

[freedom_2008]

Ya that's a sorry state of affairs. Parents don't feel safe letting their kids walk/bike to school because of traffic dangers so they drive them and thereby add to the traffic problem. The CRD has a Safe Routes to School program which identifies best walking and biking routes and also identifies things which should be improved/added like crosswalks, bike lanes, etc.

[Mike K.]

Traffic dangers?

I think that’s the first time I’ve heard that excuse as the reason. The families in my circles say their kids don’t have time to walk to school, or that they might get abducted, or that it’s too wet, too cold, too hot. But it all comes down to that choice being there, and kids loving it. Who wouldn’t?

[laconic]

I used to bike by a school every day on my way to work. I always considered it one of the most dangerous portions of my route. Cars everywhere, all the parents running late.

[Victoria Watcher]

Traffic dangers?

I think that’s the first time I’ve heard that excuse as the reason. The families in my circles say their kids don’t have time to walk to school, or that they might get abducted, or that it’s too wet, too cold, too hot. But it all comes down to that choice being there, and kids loving it. Who wouldn’t?

 

That was my thoughts too.  Never heard of traffic danger.

 

My experience is the kids that get driven to and from school simply have a parent around to do it.  If both parents (in a 2-parent household) are at work or no car is available, they do not do it.  

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 November 2021 - 07:31 AM.

[Mike K.]

Who knew school would be the most dangerous part of getting to school

But we really need to address this. It’s sort of mad how busy school lots get. It can be chaos, and it’s daily.

[lanforod]

Really should get back to bussing and walking/biking to school only. Requires a much better school bus system and would be hard for many non elite private schools to do that.