11042 replies to this topic

[LJ]

I am paying more attention to cyclists now that we have two e-bikes. One thing I noticed is that younger folks don't seem to know how to arm signal a turn.

 

The ones I noticed, that actually signalled, just pointed with either left or right hand where they were going.

[lanforod]

That has apparently become acceptable for turn signals. No one uses stop signals anymore.

[LJ]

I am in Barcelona and there are bike lanes everywhere, but there are bikes, e-bikes, scooters, skateboards, e-skateboards everywhere as well. They use bike lanes, roadways, sidewalks, and every other available surface, you really have to keep your wits about you as you move around.

One thing I do like is the availability of residents to sign on with an ebike service provided by the city government. They have six thousand ebikes around the city and for a yearly fee residents can pick one of them up, ride for up to thirty minutes around town as many times as you like. I would make use of this service if I could.

[Victoria Watcher]

 

 

https://twitter.com/...583940695535616

[Mike K.]

What we're not addressing here is how a concentration of employment in a mild climate region benefits some residents more than others, when choosing travel modes.

Victorians can walk and ride bikes to work more often than residents of other communities because they benefit from a concentration of jobs that is primarily the result of 20th century communications limitations. And even winter weather is milder (ie, heavy snow could have fallen in Langford, and Victoria didn’t see a snowflake). Today, provincial government offices don’t need to be within walking distance of the legislature. Just like federal government offices don’t all need to be in Ottawa.

So it’s all jobs-related and weather related, the alternative travel modes, in smaller centres like Victoria. Not density, not cycling lanes or even transit. It’s just jobs and how they’re situated in a city.

[Barrrister]

MikeK That is the most obvious and brilliant observation that seems to be either ignored or overlooked by all the politicians and experts. 

[Mike K.]

You can take it even further.

Victoria has way more sidewalks than most other municipalities because they were built back when it was so much cheaper to build them. Today the costs are enormous. The municipality is also flat, which makes walking and cycling easier.

The West Shore is home to 25% of the population, but has 10% of jobs across 300 sq km. The City of Victoria
alone is home to 23% of the population, and has 42% of jobs across 19 sq km. That’s all that matters here.

[lanforod]

Well, I'd add that transit convenience is a massive factor. It's far more convenient to take transit in Vancouver than in Victoria.

[Mike K.]

Langford is 2x the size of Victoria, has 50% of Victoria’s population, but only 6% of jobs.

Victoria has 7x more jobs across half the land mass.

[Mike K.]

Well, I'd add that transit convenience is a massive factor. It's far more convenient to take transit in Vancouver than in Victoria.

Yes, correct. I mentioned smaller centres to separate the role of transit, as big cities tend to have significant infrastructure advancements compared to cities like Victoria.

[Ismo07]

You can take it even further.

Victoria has way more sidewalks than most other municipalities because they were built back when it was so much cheaper to build them. Today the costs are enormous. The municipality is also flat, which makes walking and cycling easier.

The West Shore is home to 25% of the population, but has 10% of jobs across 300 sq km. The City of Victoria
alone is home to 23% of the population, and has 42% of jobs across 19 sq km. That’s all that matters here.

 

Downtowns will always be home to more jobs, more offices and more conveniences than strip malls and other less walkable areas.  Langford could be developing a nice, quaint downtown but the development strategy doesn't follow that.  Continuing to build strip malls doesn't really attract walkable areas where people would drive from parking lot to parking lot.  It's just more comfy to hit your lawyer, medical services, shopping and lunch in a small walkable area rather than drive from each to the other.  Downtowns just provide that.  If Langford created that down Goldstream rather than the half assed attempt more opportunities might be provided.   Now is the great time to do that (due to the Victoria downtown and it's troubles) but strip malls keep getting built (and warehouses) with huge parking lots in front.  Maybe build the buildings at the sidewalk and leave the parking in the back.   

[Mike K.]

The new generation of retail plazas are doing that, building up to the road frontage, with parking in the back. Belmont Market did that, Eagle Creek Village did that, Colwood Corners is doing it, and they're doing that at Royal Bay, too.

 

Downtowns don't always have the dominant concentration of employment, but that is often the case in small cities.

 

It's just disingenuous for people to say more commuters walk and cycle in Victoria because of density. That's the talking point I keep seeing. It is all related to the very high concentration of employment in a very small municipality.

[Barrrister]

Why is BC Ferries head office in downtown Victoria. We dont even have a ferry here or at least not one operated by BC Ferries. Move them to Sidney or Nainimo.

[Ismo07]

The new generation of retail plazas are doing that, building up to the road frontage, with parking in the back. Belmont Market did that, Eagle Creek Village did that, Colwood Corners is doing it, and they're doing that at Royal Bay, too.

 

Downtowns don't always have the dominant concentration of employment, but that is often the case in small cities.

 

It's just disingenuous for people to say more commuters walk and cycle in Victoria because of density. That's the talking point I keep seeing. It is all related to the very high concentration of employment in a very small municipality.

 

Ah not density really but proximity.  But the density increases where the work is, so it's partly right.  Belmont Market and Eagle Creek did that but not many store frontages front the sidewalk.  You basically have to walk into the parking lot to access most.  This is not what I mean by walkable.

[Mike K.]

There are many ways to slice bread. The Bay Centre only has four entrances and it spans an entire block, and there are no store entrances along the majority of its frontage.

The new Save Ons downtown has one entrance at a corner, you have to walk the entire span of the long building to get there, etc.

But parking lots don’t keep people from walking to work. Proximity to jobs has a lot more to do with it.

[Mike K.]

Why is BC Ferries head office in downtown Victoria. We dont even have a ferry here or at least not one operated by BC Ferries. Move them to Sidney or Nainimo.

They essentially got a deal they couldn’t refuse. They co-own the Atrium with Jawl Properties, who bought their former headquarters on Fort at Cook. Their work force in the office is also not related to the crews on ferries, and is all white collar. So they ran the numbers and decided based on access to that office, downtown made sense still, but the cherry on top was the deal with JP, at least that’s what I heard.

[Ismo07]

They essentially got a deal they couldn’t refuse. They co-own the Atrium with Jawl Properties, who bought their former headquarters on Fort at Cook. Their work force in the office is also not related to the crews on ferries, and is all white collar. So they ran the numbers and decided based on access to that office, downtown made sense still, but the cherry on top was the deal with JP, at least that’s what I heard.

 

Yeah downtown for as long as I can remember...

 

 

They essentially got a deal they couldn’t refuse. They co-own the Atrium with Jawl Properties, who bought their former headquarters on Fort at Cook. Their work force in the office is also not related to the crews on ferries, and is all white collar. So they ran the numbers and decided based on access to that office, downtown made sense still, but the cherry on top was the deal with JP, at least that’s what I heard.

 

Well for Bay Centre there are many other doors on the sidewalk for storefronts maybe more like 10-12?  As for Save on that's pretty normal.  How many storefronts in the developments you are saying...  These are both much smaller than the strip malls you refer to...  Hey and those are what they are, they are meant to be that.. Not a big deal but just not really walkable.  Goldstream needs a whole redevelopment and could be something special.

Edited by Ismo07, 08 December 2022 - 11:17 AM.

[aastra]

It always bothers me whenever "Victoria" or "Vancouver" are mentioned in news stories related to ferry service. What could be the relevance? Neither of those cities even have BC Ferry terminals!

[Ismo07]

It always bothers me whenever "Victoria" or "Vancouver" are mentioned in news stories related to ferry service. What could be the relevance? Neither of those cities even have BC Ferry terminals!

 

What about Victoria, Vancouver, Seattle airports?

[Spy Black]

Yeah downtown for as long as I can remember...

They have been indeed, as their 1100 Block Fort St. premises weren't their first location in the downtown area.

 

Prior to their occupancy of the 1100 block of Fort, they were long located in the old (now torn down) Times Colonist building near Douglas and Hillside (now the assisted living place).