5833 replies to this topic

[LeoVictoria]

Another mention of 3175 Beach  http://victoriavisio...d-security.html

[rjag]

Wait, so you have no problem with people finding and exploiting loopholes except if they are richer than you are?

No, and please don’t twist my words. You really have to try to have a discussion without making it personal....can you?

I salute the folks that can find a loophole and expose it. Lots of people the world over find back doors or workarounds and put them to their advantage.

The part I disagree with in this situation is in regard to the fact it continues to be exploited and nothing apparently is being done. Mr Black is a high profile public figure.

Do try and be nice, let’s try and have a debate and remain civil

[Cassidy]

For the first time ever I'm going to appeal my assessment.

A house I purchased new in 1999 for $290,000.00 is now assessed at $1.1 million.

 

I'm guessing (thus appealing) that this 2019 assessment is almost entirely based on a recent (huge) subdivision development near me, but a development that has zero direct impact whatsoever on my (or any) house on my street.

In other words, strictly geographical proximity ... even though there is a small range of undeveloped hills between my block, and this new development.

 

The assessment on my house has fluctuated over the past few years, from a low of $730 thousand a few years ago, to $870 thousand last year.

Suddenly it's jumped in value by over $100 thousand dollars in the last 10 months, despite the fact that I've done ZERO work on the house in the last few years, and no house on my street has ever sold for over a million bucks?

 

I'm interested in just how easy this appeal will be to initiate, and if it will ultimately cost me any money. Regardless, I'm not prepared to accept paying taxes on a $1.1 million dollar assessment on a house that I believe I'd not be able to sell for more than $850,000.00

[spanky123]

Yup, and Oak Bay took them to court about a decade ago and lost. I thought it was reversed on appeal. I have no problem with someone that finds a loophole and plays the game, but this isnt good with all the increased taxes that everyone else is having to pay and they get the benefit. It also is especially insulting being who it is.

 

Pretty much any "farm stand" or "flower stop" you see along the side of a road is there for the purposes of generating the income necessary to claim farm status. You can call it a loophole if you want but it is legit and hundreds of locally people take advantage of it every day. 

 

Another crazy rule is the one that allows people to defer property taxes at ridiculously low interest rates as long as one of the owners is 55+. Rule applies no matter what your financial status is.

[tjv]

Hot take: The Agricultural Land Reserve as applied to big cities is bloody idiotic and someone should do something about it. It's funny that people only began meaningfully complaining about farmland owners doing the bare minimum to preserve their tax status once rich Chinese started building opulent mansions in Richmond farmland, but people have been abusing the designation for a long time through "hobby farms", aka get to live in a big house in an urban center while contributing less than pretty much everybody else. The provincial government either needs to dramatically increase the required farm output/revenue to have privileged status or simply withdraw ALR protection according to urban expansion patterns.

ALR has nothing to do with it.  As long as your property is between 1.98 to 10 acres and you sell $2500 or more of farm related product you get the discount.  Under 1.98 acres and the value of product increases to $10k.  So if you have a 6000 sf lot in Fernwood you can get it too

 

Also the land value is reduced only, the value of the house is fully taxed

[rjag]

 

Also the land value is reduced only, the value of the house is fully taxed

 

Yet its the land that holds the value as we can see in all our valuations.

 

In this case 3175 Beach land value is $7,018 and the building is $1,270,518 with a 2nd part assessed at $2k for land and $6800 for building (I'll assume that the greenhouse)

Edited by rjag, 07 January 2019 - 08:48 AM.

[Sparky]

The second part is a foreshore lease I believe.

[Casual Kev]

ALR has nothing to do with it.  As long as your property is between 1.98 to 10 acres and you sell $2500 or more of farm related product you get the discount.  Under 1.98 acres and the value of product increases to $10k.  So if you have a 6000 sf lot in Fernwood you can get it too

 

Also the land value is reduced only, the value of the house is fully taxed

 

Thanks for the clarification. I do suppose the ALR is what keeps these lots kicking around, though.

[tjv]

I've been thinking about selling rocks from my place.  Hmmm $1 each, only need to sell 2500....nah $2500 each sounds better.   Pet rocks, get your pet rocks here!

[LJ]

I've been thinking about selling rocks from my place.  Hmmm $1 each, only need to sell 2500....nah $2500 each sounds better.   Pet rocks, get your pet rocks here!

Not as dumb as it sounds, you sell a $2500 rock to your neighbour, he sells you a stick for $2500, which you use to pry the rock out, so it's an expense, and you are all golden.

[tjv]

If only it was that simple.  I've talked to a few people who have it and the government actually comes out to your property to verify you have an actual producing farm and then you have to file each and every year that sold $2500 worth of stuff plus declare that income on your income taxes

 

Something tells me I wouldn't make it very far with saying I sold one of these each year haha

 

[Citified.ca]

Five-year fixed-rate rates have dropped from 3.99% to 3.74%.

 

Royal Bank cuts five-year mortgage interest rate; other lenders expected to follow

https://victoria.cit...cted-to-follow/

[Szeven]

I've done farm tax for a few years and it's a lot of work the way I did it. From observation the best ways to do it are orchard with fake sales or long term permaculture of some kind. I've done chickens, pigs, hay and vegetables and unless you don't value your time or freedom it's not worthwhile from a monetary standpoint.

[spanky123]

Best “farm sales” program I heard is the guy who buys 1 year old fruit trees from a local nursery, lets them sit in their buckets on his property for a yesr and then sells them as two year old trees.

[Rob Randall]

Just days after buying one of the most expensive residential properties in London, Ken Griffin set a record in the U.S.

The Citadel founder closed on the $238 million penthouse at 220 Central Park South, so he’ll have a place to stay when he’s working in New York, a Citadel spokeswoman said. The purchase price makes it America’s most-expensive home.

 

 

https://www.bloomber...witter-business

 

$317,663,360 cdn

[Victoria Watcher]

that’s

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 23 January 2019 - 03:56 PM.

[nerka]

I've done farm tax for a few years and it's a lot of work the way I did it. From observation the best ways to do it are orchard with fake sales or long term permaculture of some kind. I've done chickens, pigs, hay and vegetables and unless you don't value your time or freedom it's not worthwhile from a monetary standpoint.

Assuming you don't fake it generating the required revenue is definitely some real work and usually very significant expense. For most agricultural products you don't have to have any profit. Just revenue. So you can spend as much as you want to get the desired revenue. The main exception is livestock where the purchase price must be deducted from the revenue. Otherwise you could just buy a few cows from your neighbour and then sell them back.

 

Farm status has some pretty significant benefits aside from the annual savings in property taxes.

1) Pass the property on to your heirs without triggering capital gains

2) Generally no PTT within family either

 

The first could save you hundreds of thousands on a rural property that has gone up in value. The second could save you a couple tens of thousands on a valuable rural property.

 

Probably the revenue thresholds should be higher to discourage people farming purely for tax benefits.

[Szeven]

The above may be true but it's a tough assumption for me to make that I am going to live in my house for another 32 years until I can retire as a farmer and then die another x years later (I hope!) to pass on a property I have no idea if my babies want.

If I do farm tax again I'm definitely going to plan it out long term from the start to be more effective and efficient.

[tjv]

Assuming you don't fake it generating the required revenue is definitely some real work and usually very significant expense. For most agricultural products you don't have to have any profit. Just revenue. So you can spend as much as you want to get the desired revenue. The main exception is livestock where the purchase price must be deducted from the revenue. Otherwise you could just buy a few cows from your neighbour and then sell them back.

 

Farm status has some pretty significant benefits aside from the annual savings in property taxes.

1) Pass the property on to your heirs without triggering capital gains

2) Generally no PTT within family either

 

The first could save you hundreds of thousands on a rural property that has gone up in value. The second could save you a couple tens of thousands on a valuable rural property.

 

Probably the revenue thresholds should be higher to discourage people farming purely for tax benefits.

except if the property is also your principal residence you should be exempt from capital gains

 

also for fruit trees etc you also have to have a total PROFIT of $2500 to qualify

 

I think there is another rule that if you want to start growing christmas trees you are given 5 years exemption while they get established

[nerka]

except if the property is also your principal residence you should be exempt from capital gains

 

"Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) usually considers that if there is more than 1/2 hectare (1.25 acres) of property, only 1/2 hectare of the land can be considered part of the principal residence, and there would be a capital gain on the excess when the property is sold, even if the rest is the principal residence.  However, they also consider whether the property is subdividable.  Thus, if the property is 2 hectares, and is not subdividable, they may consider the whole amount of the land to be part of the principal residence."