Posted 31 October 2017 - 07:33 PM
This whole luxury condo obsession is ridiculous. Why should you or I care how luxurious somebody's condo is? The whole angle around foreign buyers has been proven to be bunk time and time again. People who bring these arguments up are frankly not paying attention.
My friend you need to be paying attention to the G&M. https://beta.theglob...rticle36793677/
From today's paper, 5.1% of all homes sold in Victoria last month went to foreign buyers. That is not a huge number nor is it insignificant.
Posted 01 November 2017 - 10:53 AM
My friend you need to be paying attention to the G&M. https://beta.theglob...rticle36793677/
From today's paper, 5.1% of all homes sold in Victoria last month went to foreign buyers. That is not a huge number nor is it insignificant.
Posted 01 November 2017 - 11:25 AM
My friend you need to be paying attention to the G&M. https://beta.theglob...rticle36793677/
From today's paper, 5.1% of all homes sold in Victoria last month went to foreign buyers. That is not a huge number nor is it insignificant.
What needs to be broken down though is the type of condo/home being purchased. Is it the average pink palace in GordonHead or in Oaklands, Esquimalt etc or is it the million $ condo or $2million home in Oak Bay. Is that $million condo being taken away from the average government employee?
Its a free market and I can buy a condo in Florida or Spain, heck I can pay the Mexican govt $300 and get a Mexican passport and buy a home on the coast
Posted 01 November 2017 - 11:27 AM
Yep. I bought my first house in 2003. From when I started looking to when I bought interest rates went from 6.5% to 4.5%. I went from paying 1200 in rent for a townhouse to paying 1150 for a full house that was mine. The reasons for that run up were obvious....
Many of the same reasons applied in 2013/14
Posted 01 November 2017 - 11:32 AM
What needs to be broken down though is the type of condo/home being purchased. Is it the average pink palace in GordonHead or in Oaklands, Esquimalt etc or is it the million $ condo or $2million home in Oak Bay. Is that $million condo being taken away from the average government employee?
Its a free market and I can buy a condo in Florida or Spain, heck I can pay the Mexican govt $300 and get a Mexican passport and buy a home on the coast
Is the million dollar condo being taken away from the average buyer? Directly, no, indirectly yes. Take Custom house. I bet a lot of those will go to out of town buyers (not necessarily foreign). That development is being built because the demand is there. If the demand was not there, it would have been developed into cheaper units that normal buyers could be occupying.
As for it being a free market, more countries are banning foreign property ownership, such as new zealand: https://globalnews.c...tention-in-b-c/
https://beta.theglob...obeandmail.com
Posted 01 November 2017 - 11:59 AM
September also saw the highest median price for a single-family-dwelling, and an average that was second in line only to June of this year.
Foreign buyers behind 5.1% of Victoria's September real-estate purchases
Grand Master ✔
Posted 01 November 2017 - 11:59 AM
Not exactly. Interest rates were already rock bottom for years. Plus, the latest run exploded in 2016.Many of the same reasons applied in 2013/14
Posted 01 November 2017 - 12:05 PM
Is the million dollar condo being taken away from the average buyer? Directly, no, indirectly yes. Take Custom house. I bet a lot of those will go to out of town buyers (not necessarily foreign). That development is being built because the demand is there. If the demand was not there, it would have been developed into cheaper units that normal buyers could be occupying.
The most sought after, most high-profile site in all of the Capital Region, arguably, would have never sold to what I think you are referring to as a "normal" buyer.
Victoria's prime real-estate hasn't been in the scope of a "normal" buyer since the late 1990's. What really turned the tide in the core was Shoal Point which was developed exclusively for foreign buyers (then mostly US-based) and very wealthy locals/Canadians. The same could be said for Bayview One which heavily promoted its uptake from the likes of politicians from across the country and wealthy non-locals.
In other words, Customs House would have never been developed into housing had it not been for the upper crust buyer wanting to buy into that project. The economics of turning it into a mixed-use rental and office complex didn't make the cut.
Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.
Posted 01 November 2017 - 12:12 PM
Is the million dollar condo being taken away from the average buyer? Directly, no, indirectly yes. Take Custom house. I bet a lot of those will go to out of town buyers (not necessarily foreign). That development is being built because the demand is there. If the demand was not there, it would have been developed into cheaper units that normal buyers could be occupying.
As for it being a free market, more countries are banning foreign property ownership, such as new zealand: https://globalnews.c...tention-in-b-c/
Yup, in Australia, foreigners have been banned from buying existing homes, the NZ thing is a clone of that. They can however buy new builds and apply to purchase if they are working or going to school in Oz with the idea being they will sell it once they leave the country.
In Spain for (I think) 500,000 euro you could buy a house and the Spanish government would give you a Eu passport with it that gave you Spanish nationality as well as free access to the Eu.
You also realise the largest foreign buyers by volume in the US are Canadians and the largest buyers by volume in Oz are Canadians?
The Customs house project would not sell for any less even if there was no foreign buyer component. Its a prime real estate location that would only be affordable by the very wealthy and would never be available as standard housing for the average government worker. Its the jewel in the Crown location that will never be replicated in that location
Posted 01 November 2017 - 12:54 PM
My friend you need to be paying attention to the G&M. https://beta.theglob...rticle36793677/
From today's paper, 5.1% of all homes sold in Victoria last month went to foreign buyers. That is not a huge number nor is it insignificant.
5% is just a number. Is 5% good. Is 5% bad? Why/why not? What's the context? What's the international average?
5% of a new 112 unit condo building like Yates on Yates in a newly gentrified area of town equates to 6 units. That means 106 units are being bought by Canadians.
What's your point here, anyway. Gentrification is bad because a tiny fraction of those units will be purchased by people who are not Canadian citizens or permanent residents? The 5% number in fact disproves your point that luxury condos are being built to attract foreign buyers. Foreign buyers are simply a small piece of a larger puzzle. The vast majority of the condo units being built are far from luxury housing stock, anyway.
Posted 01 November 2017 - 01:05 PM
The most sought after, most high-profile site in all of the Capital Region, arguably, would have never sold to what I think you are referring to as a "normal" buyer.
Victoria's prime real-estate hasn't been in the scope of a "normal" buyer since the late 1990's. What really turned the tide in the core was Shoal Point which was developed exclusively for foreign buyers (then mostly US-based) and very wealthy locals/Canadians. The same could be said for Bayview One which heavily promoted its uptake from the likes of politicians from across the country and wealthy non-locals.
In other words, Customs House would have never been developed into housing had it not been for the upper crust buyer wanting to buy into that project. The economics of turning it into a mixed-use rental and office complex didn't make the cut.
Turn it into microcondos... Based on square footage and price of the units selling there one micro unit of 300sqft would cost about $599,000. Or a regular size unit for just under $1M.
Case in point they have a 950sqft place listed for $899,000 right now.
Don't tell me there is no alternative other than ultra-luxury.
Regardless of what it could turn into, the fact that it turned into multi-million dollar condos means the space is not available for other uses whether commercial or residential.
Edited by LeoVictoria, 01 November 2017 - 01:25 PM.
Posted 01 November 2017 - 01:21 PM
For me, the issue isn't so much foreign buyers as any buyers who are purchasing primarily as an investment and not a place to live. Even if the property is being rented out, buying as an investment fogs up the demand side of the supply-demand economy everyone is always raving about.
If 200 luxury downtown condos are sold, that doesn't mean there are 200 individuals or families who want to live downtown in a luxury home they own. It could mean that up to 200 investors want to make an easy profit and 200 individuals or families want or need a place to live in the downtown core and either don't want to own a place or can't afford to own a place.
What the demand looks like on paper = 200 luxury condos in a prime downtown location
Actual demand= 200 rental units with easy access to services, stores, and public transportation
Posted 01 November 2017 - 01:34 PM
Its still 200 folks with roofs. Owning is not a right, shelter is a right
Posted 01 November 2017 - 01:38 PM
Turn it into microcondos... Based on square footage and price of the units selling there one micro unit of 300sqft would cost about $599,000. Or a regular size unit for just under $1M.
Case in point they have a 950sqft place listed for $899,000 right now.
Don't tell me there is no alternative other than ultra-luxury.
Regardless of what it could turn into, the fact that it turned into multi-million dollar condos means the space is not available for other uses whether commercial or residential.
I'm sure folks with far more experience than any of us on this forum looked at the building and determined the highest and best use for this location. Its like building on Beach Drive waterfront, you dont put up a 2 bed/1bath 750ft rancher on a 1/2 acre of waterfront. You put in what works for the location and the type of client who will be interested. This isnt selkirk or songhees
Posted 01 November 2017 - 02:15 PM
For me, the issue isn't so much foreign buyers as any buyers who are purchasing primarily as an investment and not a place to live. Even if the property is being rented out, buying as an investment fogs up the demand side of the supply-demand economy everyone is always raving about.
If 200 luxury downtown condos are sold, that doesn't mean there are 200 individuals or families who want to live downtown in a luxury home they own. It could mean that up to 200 investors want to make an easy profit and 200 individuals or families want or need a place to live in the downtown core and either don't want to own a place or can't afford to own a place.
What the demand looks like on paper = 200 luxury condos in a prime downtown location
Actual demand= 200 rental units with easy access to services, stores, and public transportation
Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.
Posted 01 November 2017 - 02:23 PM
I'm sure folks with far more experience than any of us on this forum looked at the building and determined the highest and best use for this location. Its like building on Beach Drive waterfront, you dont put up a 2 bed/1bath 750ft rancher on a 1/2 acre of waterfront. You put in what works for the location and the type of client who will be interested. This isnt selkirk or songhees
Sure, I'm not arguing that the decision is wrong, that is up to council to decide. The point is, the argument that luxury condos do not take space from regular condos is not convincing.
Posted 01 November 2017 - 03:36 PM
What's the ratio of luxury condos vs "regular condos"? I bet luxury condos make up a small portion of the overall condo segment, just like luxury cars, clothes or any other luxury consumer good. In other words, I think it's a red herring.
Should we stop mansions from being built on the Gulf Islands because people in the DES are homeless? These things are not at all related.
We have lots and lots of space for regular condos. Thing is, it takes a project two years to make it through our municipal processes and then people complain that parking lots and shortcuts are gonzo.
Posted 01 November 2017 - 03:38 PM
It’s these folks that actually added rental capacity to Victoria when the economics of purpose built rentals didn’t make sense. To vilify the investor segment of the market is to sidestep that without that risk and investment we’d be in far worse shape than we are today.
The reality is that the new-build housing market can’t survive without the investor component. You’ll note that the reason why condo developments virtually never carry an owner-only residency clause is because the economics of that make for a very poor business case.
And in the end, whether investor owned or owner occupied, people are living in those units.
Can we recognize the historical importance of those investors without continuing to rely on them? Like chamber pots or horse-drawn carriages?
And while people might be living in investor-owned units, they are paying absurd rents because unchecked speculation has let the market spiral out of control.
Posted 01 November 2017 - 03:40 PM
...We have lots and lots of space for regular condos...
And even more if the CoV didn't impose unnecessary rules like arbitrary height restrictions.
Posted 01 November 2017 - 03:53 PM
What's the ratio of luxury condos vs "regular condos"? I bet luxury condos make up a small portion of the overall condo segment, just like luxury cars, clothes or any other luxury consumer good. In other words, I think it's a red herring.
Should we stop mansions from being built on the Gulf Islands because people in the DES are homeless? These things are not at all related.
We have lots and lots of space for regular condos. Thing is, it takes a project two years to make it through our municipal processes and then people complain that parking lots and shortcuts are gonzo.
At this point, nearly all new-build condos are "luxury" in terms of affordability, if not actual quality. The only new development I've seen that was actually affordable for people like me was Verde in Esquimalt, which sold out in I believe less than a month. Even developments being branded as "affordable" are laughably expensive for average folks.
Edited to add: It's not an issue of space for regular condos, but incentives for developers to build them. Areas that have previously been affordable to lower-income families are spawning developments like Chiara or Westbay Quay. Affordable single-family homes are being replaced with luxury condos. While that might increase inventory overall, it's not helping average families find a place to live.
Edited by FirstTimeHomeCrier, 01 November 2017 - 04:01 PM.
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