Jump to content

      



























Photo

The Victoria emergency (fire/ambulance) services thread


  • Please log in to reply
2560 replies to this topic

#2041 todd

todd
  • Member
  • 12,593 posts

Posted 20 September 2020 - 11:50 AM

Some people even volunteer to do it. everybody wants to be a hero(i'd like to but lot of work)



#2042 On the Level

On the Level
  • Member
  • 2,891 posts

Posted 20 September 2020 - 12:25 PM

Some people even volunteer to do it. everybody wants to be a hero(i'd like to but lot of work)

 

Langford is mainly volunteer and spent just $3M.  It's details like this that make would Amalgamation so expensive.



#2043 VIResident

VIResident
  • Member
  • 973 posts
  • LocationVancouver Island

Posted 20 September 2020 - 12:51 PM

What shocking is we don’t realize just how much firefighting consumes of our annual tax bills. The number is huge.

 

 

Integrated Services:  compiled by officials to document the purpose and membership of an astonishing 201 voluntary agreements between the 13 municipalities - http://www.amalgamat...livery-isd.html

 

"A review of these ISDs reveal the number of agreements for various functions:

  • 42 agreements for policing
  • 29 agreements for fire protection
  • 35 agreements for engineering
  • 17 agreements for finance and administration
  • 17 agreements for parks and recreation
  • 17 agreements for planning
  • 41 agreements for other services

Noteworthy are the excessive number of separate ISD agreements for 17 fire and 6 police departments to cooperate. If evidence of excessive bureaucracy is needed, this is it!"

 

911 System in the Regional Districthttp://www.amalgamat...-1-service.html

 

Disaster Response & Emergency Management Plans, "Greater Victoria Style"

http://www.amalgamat...ment-plans.html


  • Brayvehart likes this

#2044 VIResident

VIResident
  • Member
  • 973 posts
  • LocationVancouver Island

Posted 20 September 2020 - 12:52 PM

Langford is mainly volunteer and spent just $3M.  It's details like this that make would Amalgamation so expensive.

 

Municipal Service Matrix Have a look  http://www.amalgamat..._autosaved_.pdf



#2045 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 83,187 posts

Posted 20 September 2020 - 01:52 PM

While the province paid $500 million for a new stadium roof, municipal taxpayers paid for fire departments to act as paramedics.

Firefighters are now first responders so often that they might as well have special trucks to transport people to hospital, like you see in the US.

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#2046 On the Level

On the Level
  • Member
  • 2,891 posts

Posted 20 September 2020 - 02:01 PM

 

While the province paid $500 million for a new stadium roof, municipal taxpayers paid for fire departments to act as paramedics.

Firefighters are now first responders so often that they might as well have special trucks to transport people to hospital, like you see in the US.

 

First Responders is decades old and well defined / trained through the Justice Institute.  It's popular as it pads response numbers which helps with budgeting.  
 
Regarding Amalgamation, it isn't as simple as everyone hopes it will be.  A larger department won't simply let go all of the other chiefs and administrative staff.  Now you'll have see it bloat with deputy chiefs etc. and everyone will be under one union.  Larger government structures are not more efficient. 
 
“On average all municipalities added employees, but restructured ones, ones that were amalgamated, added employees at twice the rate of unrestructured municipalities, ones that were left alone.”
 
Costs increase due to harmonizing, but since the core city residents will not accept reductions, harmonization means increased costs;
  •  Salaries for those representing the outlying areas go up
  •  Non union municipalities become unionized - Volunteer services, such as firefighting, become paid
  •  Services become harmonized, meaning policy for services become consistent.  Example.....Langford will now receive garbage pickup as part of their municipal service and all staff will become union.  

"Low Expectations For Municipal Amalgamation In Ontario" - Frontier Centre for Public Policy

 

"Discredited ideas and Utopian ideals driving municipal amalgamations" - C.D. Howe Institute study

 

 



#2047 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 83,187 posts

Posted 20 September 2020 - 02:22 PM

First Responders is decades old and well defined / trained through the Justice Institute. It's popular as it pads response numbers which helps with budgeting.

100%.

Offsetting provincial obligations on to the local/municipal taxpayer.
  • On the Level likes this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#2048 VIResident

VIResident
  • Member
  • 973 posts
  • LocationVancouver Island

Posted 20 September 2020 - 06:03 PM

 

 

 

First Responders is decades old and well defined / trained through the Justice Institute.  It's popular as it pads response numbers which helps with budgeting.  
 
Regarding Amalgamation, it isn't as simple as everyone hopes it will be.  A larger department won't simply let go all of the other chiefs and administrative staff.  Now you'll have see it bloat with deputy chiefs etc. and everyone will be under one union.  Larger government structures are not more efficient. 
 
“On average all municipalities added employees, but restructured ones, ones that were amalgamated, added employees at twice the rate of unrestructured municipalities, ones that were left alone.”
 
Costs increase due to harmonizing, but since the core city residents will not accept reductions, harmonization means increased costs;
  •  Salaries for those representing the outlying areas go up
  •  Non union municipalities become unionized - Volunteer services, such as firefighting, become paid
  •  Services become harmonized, meaning policy for services become consistent.  Example.....Langford will now receive garbage pickup as part of their municipal service and all staff will become union.  

"Low Expectations For Municipal Amalgamation In Ontario" - Frontier Centre for Public Policy

 

"Discredited ideas and Utopian ideals driving municipal amalgamations" - C.D. Howe Institute study

 

 

 

 

Who said it would be simple?  and nobody, least of all this poster, says we should mimic every other amalgamation in Canada (all BC amalgamations were a smashing success btw).  The model the 13 municipalities are currently running on is a rats nest of bureaucracy, inefficient and nobody in their right mind would copy what goes on here and use it elsewhere.  Oh and while I'm at it, the CRD is not an elected body to boot! Ridiculous.  Point is this needs to be fixed, the Province must do it because as we've seen the elected officials are not capable or simple refuse to acknowledge - we have a problem.  Just wait for the next tax bills.


Edited by VIResident, 20 September 2020 - 06:05 PM.


#2049 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 52,347 posts

Posted 20 September 2020 - 06:09 PM

EXACTLY.

it should not be simple nor should it repeat the other failures.

#2050 Spy Black

Spy Black
  • Banned
  • 2,461 posts

Posted 21 September 2020 - 06:17 AM

they are the highest-paid blue collar workers in our local government.

Highest paid in that Firefighters in Victoria make more per hour than the typical VicPD officer?

 

As a department, the Victoria Fire Dept is actually pretty efficient for a 24/7/365 operation over three locations, taking only 7% of the total COV budget ... compared to VicPD's 23% of the COV budget.



#2051 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher

    Old White Man On A Canadian Island

  • Member
  • 52,347 posts

Posted 21 September 2020 - 06:24 AM

but they only respond to a few fire calls a month.
  • Spy Black likes this

#2052 Rob Randall

Rob Randall
  • Member
  • 16,310 posts

Posted 21 September 2020 - 06:38 AM

Isn't the bulk of their working day involve inspections? They aren't just lying around the firehouse napping. They're out doing stuff. It just isn't actually fighting fires.


  • Cats4Hire likes this

#2053 Spy Black

Spy Black
  • Banned
  • 2,461 posts

Posted 21 September 2020 - 06:46 AM

Isn't the bulk of their working day involve inspections? They aren't just lying around the firehouse napping. They're out doing stuff. It just isn't actually fighting fires.

I think you'd be surprised.

I've known quite a few Firefighters over the decades, and still call many of them my friends ... and as much as it's a brutal job when you're fighting a fire, and potentially dealing with human bodies, there are few inspections taking place during the evening, and no inspections whatsoever taking place during the nighttime.

 

There are inspections taking place during the daytime, but those inspections are (by and large) carried out by Inspectors, not rank and file Firefighters, who have to be on stand-by inside the Firehall. They can't be on the 8th floor of some office building downtown doing an inspection if a major fire or accident cali comes in.

 

There's a lot of sitting around watching TV, and by far and away the biggest "entertainment" element in any firehall is the cooking of comprehensive, tasty meals.

 

Bottom line, if you're cut out for the lifestyle, and can deal with a lot of sitting around, it's a darn good gig.



#2054 lanforod

lanforod
  • Member
  • 11,241 posts
  • LocationSaanich

Posted 21 September 2020 - 07:11 AM

I thought a lot of their calls have shifted to medical emergencies now. Something like a 20 medical to each fire call now?



#2055 Spy Black

Spy Black
  • Banned
  • 2,461 posts

Posted 21 September 2020 - 07:14 AM

I thought a lot of their calls have shifted to medical emergencies now. Something like a 20 medical to each fire call now?

That's what I understand as well, but unlike a fire, a singular medical emergency doesn't empty the entire fire station, ladder truck, pumper, etc.

 

As was noted earlier in the thread, "Firefighter" may not be the most accurate description of the job any longer.

But the meals are still amazing whatever the bulk of the calls for service may be in 2020 :)



#2056 Nparker

Nparker
  • Member
  • 40,410 posts

Posted 21 September 2020 - 07:44 AM

...But the meals are still amazing...

So it's not just a giant pot of "4 alarm" chili that is kept simmering 24/7?  ;)



#2057 lehman01

lehman01
  • Member
  • 29 posts

Posted 21 September 2020 - 07:53 AM

What happens if Fire Departments, (Career & Paid On Call/ Volunteer), went to a similar model to BCEHS’s (BC Ambulance) Fox Car shift to evidently cut costs and save money;
You still have your firefighters at career stations, but they’re paid around $15 waiting around and then get an hour’s worth of full pay when a call comes in, there wouldn’t be any overlap if another call came in within the hour but they would be paid the respective amount if the call(s) went over 1 hour.
If they were training that day, they would be paid full pay for the amount of training done; again in correspondence with the amount of hours done.
This model would work the exact same at POC/ Volunteer Stations like Langford, except instead of 16 guys at 1 Station like Victoria, you only have 2-3.

#2058 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 83,187 posts

Posted 21 September 2020 - 08:09 AM

For starters, we don't need so many darned fire departments for a region of 400,000. There are 17 fire chiefs in the Capital (don't forget about East Sooke, Otter Point, Shirley and Willis Point).


  • Spy Black likes this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#2059 Rob Randall

Rob Randall
  • Member
  • 16,310 posts

Posted 21 September 2020 - 08:13 AM

Compared to the New York Fire Department chief structure:
 

1 Chief of Department
8 Chiefs
14 Assistant Chiefs
10 Deputy Assistant Chiefs
14 Division Chiefs Units
53 Battalion Chiefs Units (including the Special Operations/Rescue Battalion Chief,Hazmat(Hazardous Materials) Battalion Chief and Marine Battalion Chief) [3]

 

https://en.wikipedia...Fire_Operations


  • Mike K. likes this

#2060 Rob Randall

Rob Randall
  • Member
  • 16,310 posts

Posted 21 September 2020 - 08:38 AM

NYC population: 8.4 million

BC population: 5.1 million

CRD population:384,000



You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users