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Situation in Syria / ISIS


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#21 Mike K.

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 08:50 AM

But let's not forget that ISIS controls territories all the way from western Africa to China (yes, China -- but you don't hear that in the news). Iraq is but one territory dealing with these insurgents.


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#22 jklymak

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:50 AM

^ Sometimes you read the darndest things on the internet.  



#23 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:54 AM

But let's not forget that ISIS controls territories all the way from western Africa to China (yes, China -- but you don't hear that in the news). Iraq is but one territory dealing with these insurgents.

 

ISIS has stated great ambitions, but they have no meaningful activity outside of Syria and Iraq.


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#24 spanky123

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:30 AM

The US is also party in leaving Iraq in the situation that it is in.

 

Say what you will about Saddam, he was able to control the volatile religious factions that make up this complex region.

 

By removing Saddam and then removing themselves they have left this country exposed in a big way. Their lending a hand with military assistance from time to time is what should be expected of them.  

 

You could make the same statement about Libya and Egypt as well. Like Saddam, ISIS were actually US allies for a time (when the US decided to try and overthrow the Government of Syria).

 

At the end of the day I don't think that the US cares at all about policing the world outside of the areas that they have an economic interest in.


Edited by spanky123, 12 August 2014 - 11:32 AM.


#25 Mike K.

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:53 AM

Ultimately it comes down to pipelines of course, but the Europeans have been debating instead of acting and they too were involved in Iraq as part of the coalition with the US and they too have absolutely massive oil interests in the middle east (Shell, British Petroleum, etc.).


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#26 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 12:00 PM

 

At the end of the day I don't think that the US cares at all about policing the world outside of the areas that they have an economic interest in.

 

And if you can't be everywhere in the world, it makes sense to start with where you have economic interests.

 

A lot of liberals like to have it both ways in this regard.  They scream "it's all about the oil" when the US gets involved in Iraq or Libya, but then they scream "why won't you help?" in conflicts in areas with much less strategic interest to the US.


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#27 Jason-L

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:53 PM

One of the reasons for the airstrikes is to destroy some of the rather expensive and advanced US artillery and equipment that ISIS liberated from the Iraqi Army.  This infusion of reasonably new equipment is part of the reason ISIS is making inroads against the under-equipped Kurds, who are otherwise considered good fighters.

 

It's a bit embarrassing that the US has to destroy the equipment it gave to Iraq, but there you go.



#28 spanky123

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 03:24 PM

One of the reasons for the airstrikes is to destroy some of the rather expensive and advanced US artillery and equipment that ISIS liberated from the Iraqi Army.  This infusion of reasonably new equipment is part of the reason ISIS is making inroads against the under-equipped Kurds, who are otherwise considered good fighters.

 

It's a bit embarrassing that the US has to destroy the equipment it gave to Iraq, but there you go.

 

Or the equipment that they 'gave' to ISIS and other rebel groups when they were trying to overthrow the Syrian Government.


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#29 spanky123

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 03:25 PM

And if you can't be everywhere in the world, it makes sense to start with where you have economic interests.

 

A lot of liberals like to have it both ways in this regard.  They scream "it's all about the oil" when the US gets involved in Iraq or Libya, but then they scream "why won't you help?" in conflicts in areas with much less strategic interest to the US.

 

I would prefer if Canada stayed out in both cases.



#30 LJ

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 06:38 PM

It wouldn't surprise me to learn Russia was helping ISIS if not directly then at least silently cheering them on.

 

A disruption in mid-east oil production would allow Russia to gain access to markets not previously served by them, inflating their importance in their region, and making all their neighbours very cautious about sanctions for their other escapades.


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#31 spanky123

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 08:04 PM

It wouldn't surprise me to learn Russia was helping ISIS if not directly then at least silently cheering them on.

 

A disruption in mid-east oil production would allow Russia to gain access to markets not previously served by them, inflating their importance in their region, and making all their neighbours very cautious about sanctions for their other escapades.

 

Russia has tended to stay out of the 'financing of crazies' game in recent years. That prize seems to remain firmly entrenched with the US and Iran.



#32 AllseeingEye

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 08:35 PM

Russia has tended to stay out of the 'financing of crazies' game in recent years. That prize seems to remain firmly entrenched with the US and Iran.

Saudi Arabia, Qatar among many other key Gulf states. Both right up there at or near the top of any such list.



#33 spanky123

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:19 PM

Saudi Arabia, Qatar among many other key Gulf states. Both right up there at or near the top of any such list.

 

True although they are both proxies for the US in many cases - except for the crazies that the Saudi's funded to crash planes into buildings.



#34 spanky123

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 09:25 AM

A new report from Snowden states that the infamous Internet blackout that occurred in Syria during the Arab Spring uprisings was caused by the NSA and not the Syrian Government as reported by the US media at the time.

 

Apparently the NSA was trying to redirect web traffic in order to spy on it and accidentally 'bricked' the router of a large ISP

 

http://arstechnica.c...ternet-in-2012/



#35 jonny

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 09:56 AM

I have tended to ignore the geopolitical issues of the Middle East as I absolutely loathe any human disagreement shrouded under the cover of religion. That and my experiences within the Middle East have taught me that the average person in a country like Egypt isn't really capable of a thoughtful political or social discussion that doesn't include some very strong references to Islam. I just can't wrap my head around hating somebody to the point where I feel really ****ing good about murdering them because they are Christian or whatever.

 

That being said, the scale of the sheer animalistic brutality of ISIS in northern Iraq - mandatory conversion to Islam, expulsions of entire populations, crucifixions, beheadings, raping of women, killing of children, mass executions of unarmed soldiers and civilians and mass graves - certainly gives me pause.

 

I spent quite a bit of time in Egypt when it was under the control of Mubarek's regime. The average Egyptian loathed Hosni Mubarek, but I must say the country was relatively safe, under control and in some form of human order. Give the power to the people, and you may not like what you get. The people will fall back on Islamic leaders, which certainly contain some people with some interesting theological viewpoints who would very much like to chop of whitey's head.


Edited by jonny, 14 August 2014 - 09:57 AM.


#36 spanky123

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:06 AM

^ Well we are certainly at the point in many areas in the US where you cannot have a reasonable political or social discussion without drawing Christianity into the mix.

 

I think the leaders in many countries draw religion, ignorance and fear into public discussion as they are simple, time proven ways of organizing people into a common cause.


Edited by spanky123, 14 August 2014 - 10:06 AM.


#37 G-Man

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:06 AM

I don't think I agree. The average person in a third world country can be compared to the average person in the West. Underlying most of these issues are problems of poverty and oppression under a Western hegemony. The fact that religion is used as a catalyst is not surprising. If you had the same sociological and economic conditions in the American south you may see the same things in the name of religion.

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#38 jonny

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:28 AM

I love how a discussion about Islam and the Middle East immediately turns to Christianity and the United States of America. I guess I forgot how everything is American's fault. Nothing to see here folks, move along now.

 

Comparing America to the Middle East in any sort of social sense is absurd.



#39 spanky123

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:37 AM

I love how a discussion about Islam and the Middle East immediately turns to Christianity and the United States of America. I guess I forgot how everything is American's fault. Nothing to see here folks, move along now.

 

Comparing America to the Middle East in any sort of social sense is absurd.

 

Westerners in the name of Christianity have killed far more Middle Easterners than ISIS has in the name of Islam. Now you can wrap Western involvement in the Middle East in the name of democracy or humanitarian efforts but the outcome seems to keep being the same. Countries that were at least functional are broken and millions of people wind up being displaced, killed or injured.

 

What bothers me equally is how Western Governments continually lie or mislead the public into supporting their actions.



#40 jonny

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:46 AM

Well the Ottoman Empire wasn't exactly all about puppies and kittens either.

 

Maybe there is one, but I can't recall a recent example of a western country getting involved in the affairs of a Muslim country in the name of Christianity.

 

How dare we condemn what is being done in the name of Islam when it is so much easier to condemn the west.



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