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Victoria Kitchen Scraps Collection.. and its failure


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#41 James Bay walker

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:10 PM

Why are we so opposed to incineration? 

Ah, because we've become aware of the negative impact backyard or city incinerators have  on the neighbourhood and global environment? 

 

The alternative of turning waste into a useful product such as compost has its appeal, though there's a learning and acceptance curve involved. 

 

For quite some time Victoria city has had a worm composting center http://compost.bc.ca/  (for a donation you could get a sampling of worms to try this out at home).  For many, this has become a manageable project for kitchen food scrap recycling (well, for non-animal products).  http://50.87.144.118...icomposting.pdf

 

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#42 jonny

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:37 PM

Ah, because we've become aware of the negative impact backyard or city incinerators have  on the neighbourhood and global environment? 

 

Landfills produce lots of methane and CO2. 

 

Not all waste can be composted, either. 

 

There are lots of examples of clean garbage incineration facilities that burn garbage and produce electricity, in fact there are studies that show they produce fewer emissions than landfills. I think this is a case of perception not matching up with reality. This is, as this article states, a NIMBY issue. Everybody wants zero waste, but frankly that goal is probably not achievable. 

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ash&st=cse&_r=0

 

 

Still, a 2009 study by the E.P.A. and North Carolina State University scientists came down strongly in favor of waste-to-energy plants over landfills as the most environmentally friendly destination for urban waste that cannot be recycled. Embracing the technology would not only reduce greenhouse gas emissions and local pollution, but also yield copious electricity, it said. 


Edited by jonny, 31 March 2014 - 12:38 PM.

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#43 jklymak

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 08:43 PM

Landfills produce lots of methane and CO2. 
 
Not all waste can be composted, either. 
 
There are lots of examples of clean garbage incineration facilities that burn garbage and produce electricity, in fact there are studies that show they produce fewer emissions than landfills. I think this is a case of perception not matching up with reality. This is, as this article states, a NIMBY issue. Everybody wants zero waste, but frankly that goal is probably not achievable. 
 
http://www.nytimes.c...ash&st=cse&_r=0


I think you are only better to burn your garbage and recover the energy if your alternative energy source is coal or something else that dumps a lot of co2 into the air. Burning organic matter puts a lot more co2 into the atmosphere than burying it.

#44 phx

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:23 PM

I think you are only better to burn your garbage and recover the energy if your alternative energy source is coal or something else that dumps a lot of co2 into the air. Burning organic matter puts a lot more co2 into the atmosphere than burying it.

Less methane, though, so pick your poison.



#45 jklymak

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 06:09 AM

Given methanes short residence time in the atmosphere I'll chose methane.

#46 jonny

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 07:27 AM

I think you are only better to burn your garbage and recover the energy if your alternative energy source is coal or something else that dumps a lot of co2 into the air. Burning organic matter puts a lot more co2 into the atmosphere than burying it.

 

Some of the greenest countries, and those with the highest recycling rates in the world incinerate their garbage.

 

Burying garbage has other negative externalities as well. You require a lot of land and fill, not to mention the management of landfills requires a lot of heavy machinery which of course burn a lot of fuel.

 

The NY Times article I linked to cites a study that found that "While new, state-of-the-art landfills do collect the methane that emanates from rotting garbage to make electricity, they churn out roughly twice as much climate-warming gas as waste-to-energy plants do for the units of power they produce..."

 

Anyway, I think it would be interesting if we looked at it here. One big state of the art incinerator on the lower mainland would do the trick.



#47 jklymak

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 01:39 PM

When by city has to truck garbage hundreds of miles and they use a lot of coal power, then burning garbage locally makes a lot of sense. Around here where we have lots of hydro power, I think the argument is harder, particularly if the plant is very expensive because of all the scrubbing tech and you end up trucking garbage a long ways again.

I agree it's worth looking at, but I would be surprised if it was a good idea financially or environmentally.

#48 Bingo

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 09:19 PM

Then there is Controlled Waste, such as dead animals.

 

What is Controlled Waste?

Landfilling of certain types of wastes create potential nuisance, health and safety concerns for staff, or environmental concerns beyond those expected from regular household refuse. These wastes require special handling to reduce impacts to the landfill leachate and to protect the health and safety of employees.

Items that are considered controlled waste include animal feces, sewage contaminated grit, catch basin waste and dead animals.

 

https://www.crd.bc.c...-waste-disposal
 

 

 



#49 AmalgamationYes

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:08 AM

Finish this sentence: 

The largest municipality in the CRD, Saanich has ___________________

 

"Fisher Road Recycling has a contract to process kitchen scraps collected through Saanich’s green-bin program, which began Tuesday.

It has also been processing material from Victoria, View Royal, Esquimalt, Sidney and Oak Bay, but doesn’t have the capacity for their scraps now that Saanich’s program has started."

 


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#50 Arnold

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:31 AM

^ Tunnel vision?

 

a giant garbage can in the back yard?

 

a sanctimonious attitude?


Edited by Arnold, 02 April 2014 - 06:33 AM.


#51 Mike K.

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:25 AM

Holy smokes, so when Leonard was saying his municipality made the right decisions and Victoria bungled its food scraps plan, he conveniently left out the fact Saanich was pushing Victoria out of the way?

Am I understanding this correctly?

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#52 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:30 AM

 

Finish this sentence: 

The largest municipality in the CRD, Saanich has ___________________

 

 

 

 

...bested Victoria, View Royal, Esquimalt, Sidney and Oak Bay, and proved that competition among communities, rather than amalgamation, helps keep costs low for taxpayers.


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#53 lanforod

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:33 AM

There is only so much capacity. As I understand it, if the expansion application is approved, there will be enough capacity there for all the communities/cities. Can't really blame Saanich for getting a contract that apparently Victoria et. al. dropped the ball on.



#54 Mike K.

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:48 AM

But weren't the other municipalities already sending scraps there? We need to know more about what Saanich did that pushed the other municipalities out. Did they pay more? Did they threaten to go elsewhere? Or what, exactly? Obviously for a business dealing with one large client is easier than managing several small clients, but it just seems bizarro what has transpired.

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#55 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:52 AM

But weren't the other municipalities already sending scraps there? We need to know more about what Saanich did that pushed the other municipalities out. Did they pay more? Did they threaten to go elsewhere? Or what, exactly? Obviously for a business dealing with one large client is easier than managing several small clients, but it just seems bizarro what has transpired.

 

The other munis were only sending their stuff after Foundation Organics had problems.  By then Fisher already had signed the Saanich deal, knew it was coming.  Actually, Saanich's deal is with a trucker that can take the stuff anywhere he wants, but that trucker had the deal with Fisher.


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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#56 Mike K.

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:05 AM

I see. So Leonard really is puffing up his feathers and taking jabs at Victoria.

Really it looks like Saanich got lucky and had the ability to avoid problems after watching Victoria iron out the folds over the past year.

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#57 Sparky

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:21 AM

Saanich has 4 elected officials at the CRD table. They must be observing chaos on a regular basis. I am assuming that it is not hard to out maneuver the CRD decision making process.

 

This scenario should also be a warning to the pro amalgamation folks who think that bigger is better.  


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#58 Mike K.

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:22 AM

Regarding the last paragraph, how so?

I mean to be honest this entire region has the population of a single neighborhood/district of a large city but the way discussion on amalgamation is so often shaped it's as though we're trying to merge into a megacity or something.

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#59 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:29 AM

Regarding the last paragraph, how so?

 

He means smaller can be nimbler, move faster, not wait for input on decisions from all the councils.  And in some cases, make deals to better serve their population, rather than one that suits all.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#60 Mike K.

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:40 AM

We'd have no use for a dozen councils once amalgamated. One council, maybe three at worst. To govern this entire region we don't need more than a dozen elected officials. Surely what we are striving to implement will be no worse and no better than what is already taking place in each of our twelve city halls, but what we won't have is this silly positioning by competing municipalities.
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