794 replies to this topic

[nerka]

^I have to wonder what all these government office moves is costing taxpayers.  There is no need for government offices to relocate every 5 to 10 years.  I know improvements to get the Federal Government to take 3 floors at 595 Pandora for 5 years was $1 million, then they just upped and left

There have been a few stupid and wasteful moves, but the average ministry HQ or regional office goes way longer than 5-10 years between moves.  Health has been at Blanshard for how long? MOE was more than 20 years at Selkirk I think.

[Nparker]

...Health has been at Blanshard for how long? MOE was more than 20 years at Selkirk I think.

Health at 1515 Blanshard since 1974
Education at 620 Superior since at least 1991
 

[manuel]

For government it is likely more about consolidating leases, the space reductions from moving to open office environments and perceived or real productivity and culture gains from the same that is driving this rather than moving for moving sake.

The leases on the new space would have been approved by the previous govt and only now have the seconday decisions on who moves where and when been made.

My main question is what will happen to the art deco building at 780 Blanshard.

Edited by manuel, 20 October 2017 - 12:00 PM.

[tjv]

There have been a few stupid and wasteful moves, but the average ministry HQ or regional office goes way longer than 5-10 years between moves.  Health has been at Blanshard for how long? MOE was more than 20 years at Selkirk I think.

I am not saying every government office moves every 5-10 years.  I gave the example of the feds only being at 595 Pandora for 5 years before moving and after $1 million of improvements to the space.  the space was for lease again before the building was sold by Downtown Developments of Toronto to Ceilo

 

Some government offices have never changed like the CRA building on Vancouver St or Health on Blanshard

[Cassidy]

I'm afraid this will sound a bit anti-development (which I'm not), but I don't at all get this development.

 

In so many ways, it seems to have singlehandedly dragged downtown Victoria kicking and screaming into the area on the South side of the Parliament Buildings, after a lifetime of having downtown stop (thank god) on the North side of the Parliament Buildings.

 

Although the James Bay Village has long been "a thing", it has always maintained the "village" feel, and honestly never seemed at all to have anything to do with downtown Victoria.

 

This new development changes all that, and essentially links the overbuilt, highly trafficked boisterousness of the downtown core tightly (and very uncomfortably) to lovely James Bay.

 

I don't like it at all, and preferred the wartime houses and "1950's modern" outbuildings that were long used as Government offices.

 

IMO James Bay suffers just that little bit more as a result of this development, yet again being the place where developers go to try and pack even more people into an area that was essentially filled up to overflowing over 40 years ago.

 

City Council determined it seems, to turn James Bay from the lovely community it is (was?) into yet another example of the endless dump that is Vancouver's West End.

Edited by Cassidy, 20 October 2017 - 01:43 PM.

[VicHockeyFan]

 

IMO James Bay suffers just that little bit more as a result of this development, yet again being the place where developers go to try and pack even more people into an area that was essentially filled up to overflowing over 40 years ago.

 

City Council determined it seems, to turn James Bay from the lovely community it is (was?) into yet another example of the endless dump that is Vancouver's West End.

 

Some people love the West End.  The same type of people that love Manhattan.  James Bay has never been Rockland or even Fairfield, as long as I can remember.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 20 October 2017 - 01:53 PM.

[Jackerbie]

^ Locals love the West End, and are fighting to preserve it as the next wave of redevelopment comes through.

 

Back to Capital Park, though, if downtown is "overbuilt," then why is expanding the downtown surprising? It's growing in all directions as Victoria and the region continues to grow and evolve.

[Cassidy]

I lived in the West End for a couple of years, and everybody else I knew that lived there would have moved to Kits in a second if they could have. 

Not saying there aren't some folks who love living there, but I suspect most would be in Kits (or elsewhere) if they could afford it.

 

I love Manhattan, at least as a visitor ... but at a million dollars for a studio suite in Hell's Kitchen it becomes sort of moot, and renders the concept of living there (whether you love it or hate it) a non-starter.

 

But "yeah", when I was a kid, James Bay was where you lived if you were from the wrong side of the tracks ... usually with your dad working at VMD, walking to work each morning from your little wartime house on San Juan or Oswego.

[VicHockeyFan]

Ha ha, my dad worked at VMD!  Trust me, every time we took a ferry he'd point out how he installed the overhead wiring. 

 

OK, dad, boooooring!

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 20 October 2017 - 02:10 PM.

[Cassidy]

^ Locals love the West End, and are fighting to preserve it as the next wave of redevelopment comes through.

 

Back to Capital Park, though, if downtown is "overbuilt," then why is expanding the downtown surprising? It's growing in all directions as Victoria and the region continues to grow and evolve.

Because sometimes it's nice to have a dear little neighborhood that you're comfortable in, and that you moved to expressly because it wasn't connected to downtown?

 

I get it though, because of housing prices in town, eventually every square inch of the CRD will be developed to the point of being overdeveloped.

 

Thank goodness I won't be here when that happens, after a lifetime of walking, busing, and driving around every square inch of Victoria ... I don't think I could bear the sight.

[Mike K.]

I am not saying every government office moves every 5-10 years.  I gave the example of the feds only being at 595 Pandora for 5 years before moving and after $1 million of improvements to the space.

 

The Ministry of Forests operated out of 595 Pandora for many, many years. They were certainly there in the 1990's, and Service Canada was there for many years until they moved to Johnson at Douglas. The building sat vacant from the moment Service Canada left, which I think was in 2014?

[Nparker]

I'm afraid this will sound a bit anti-development (which I'm not), but I don't at all get this development....

Not anti-development, just anti this development. How many times does that phrase get bandied about at Council chambers?

...This new development changes all that, and essentially links the overbuilt, highly trafficked boisterousness of the downtown core

Overbuilt? Downtown Victoria hasn't changed much in the past 40 years. It's a good century away from being overbuilt. As for highly trafficked, have you been downtown almost any weeknight after 6:00 PM? You could take a nap on much of Douglas Street and not get disturbed.

I...preferred the wartime houses and "1950's modern" outbuildings that were long used as Government offices

Aaack! Clearly you never had to work in those "temporary" post-war out buildings. Even in their prime they were third world structures and most recently held together with duct tape and hope.

[tjv]

The Ministry of Forests operated out of 595 Pandora for many, many years. They were certainly there in the 1990's, and Service Canada was there for many years until they moved to Johnson at Douglas. The building sat vacant from the moment Service Canada left, which I think was in 2014?

Service Canada which occupied 3 of the 4 floors from late late 2005 and left I am going to say in around 2011.  When I have time I will look up the dates because I was involved in both projects

[Cassidy]

 

Aaack! Clearly you never had to work in those "temporary" post-war out buildings. Even in their prime they were third world structures and most recently held together with duct tape and hope.

Mmmm, now that I think about it, I did work for a few years when I was a kid as a government courier (Clerk 1 if I recall), delivering mail to those buildings. If I recall, during the summer months it was about F95 degrees inside those "modern" buildings, hotter inside the wartime houses.

 

OK, then I just liked how they looked!

[nerka]

IMO James Bay suffers just that little bit more as a result of this development, yet again being the place where developers go to try and pack even more people into an area that was essentially filled up to overflowing over 40 years ago.

 

City Council determined it seems, to turn James Bay from the lovely community it is (was?) into yet another example of the endless dump that is Vancouver's West End.

Interesting perspective. Personally I find the development fairly modest and in better taste than some of the towers in the neighbourhood.  I don't see this development as being big enough to make a big difference to the neighbourhood, but I guess some might see it as the "thin edge of the wedge".

[aastra]

 

...it seems to have singlehandedly dragged downtown Victoria kicking and screaming into the area on the South side of the Parliament Buildings...

 

Do you really think so? I'd say this is very much a neighbourhood project, both in scale and in form. The buildings are short and there will be extensive campus-style landscaping. The Selkirk is considerably more downtown-ish than this development (but not actually downtown-ish, really), and yet the Selkirk seems to be a fine fit in a neighbourhood that was quite a bit further from downtown than James Bay is.

[Cassidy]

Driving down Superior now, it feels like you're driving through a downtown canyon. The building looms over the street.

It definitely feels like a stretch of downtown.

 

The set-back is pretty much non-existent, and rather than blending in, the scale of the building dominates the immediate landscape.

 

It's hardly what I would call a "sensitive" development in an old, original neighborhood like James Bay.

 

Yeah, I don't like it.

[Mike K.]

Service Canada which occupied 3 of the 4 floors from late late 2005 and left I am going to say in around 2011.  When I have time I will look up the dates because I was involved in both projects

 

Service Canada kept their 595 Pandora office open until the one on Johnson Street opened in the fall of 2012, I've been able to confirm (not in 2014).

 

Cielo Properties started renovation of the building in 2014.

[Bingo]

Interesting perspective. Personally I find the development fairly modest and in better taste than some of the towers in the neighbourhood.  I don't see this development as being big enough to make a big difference to the neighbourhood, but I guess some might see it as the "thin edge of the wedge".

 

This development is the first time in many years that something decent has been built in precinct to encourage government offices to stay in the area.

I don't know much about the Douglas Building, but with some upgrades inside and out I think there are few decades of life left.

I think this is the beginning of more projects to make a BIG difference in the neighbourhood.

Some lump it but I like it. 

[Nparker]

Driving down Superior now, it feels like you're driving through a downtown canyon...

The long feared "Manhattanization" of dear old James Bay has begun. The charm and ambience of the Menzies/Superior parking lot gone forever. Might as well down a cup of hemlock now.