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Walmart Supercentre stores in Victoria and on southern Vancouver Island


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#121 jonny

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 01:16 PM

They've been saying brick and mortar retailers are on their last legs for a decade plus...

 

Consumers want the experience, which is something e-business can't compete with. Products are sold through those tangible experiences.

 

Brick and mortar will never die because shopping is about the experience. People love to shop. They love touching and feeling products. They love the sense of adventure of setting out and checking out several stores. Consumers want the hands on experience, not just convenience or the lowest possible prices.

 

95% of people are very price conscious? Hmm, then I wonder why luxury goods sell so well. Lulu lemon, Coach, BMW, Nike, Apple and other brands remain best sellers even though there are many less costly alternatives.


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#122 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 01:57 PM

 

95% of people are very price conscious? Hmm, then I wonder why luxury goods sell so well. Lulu lemon, Coach, BMW, Nike, Apple and other brands remain best sellers even though there are many less costly alternatives.

 

No, no, no, that's not what I meant.  For the identical item, (that's not associated with atmosphere, ie. a rum and coke at the Empress Hotel compared to the Legion) many purchaers would like to pay a lower price.  Like for your Brother laser printer.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#123 Mike K.

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:07 PM

 

Brick and mortar will never die because shopping is about the experience. People love to shop. They love touching and feeling products. They love the sense of adventure of setting out and checking out several stores. Consumers want the hands on experience, not just convenience or the lowest possible prices.

 

 

They do want that experience, and once they've experienced the product, they will turn around and order it online. This type of shopping in increasing in droves and small business retailers in particular are finding it tougher and tougher to keep their stores (particularly clothing stores) open.

 

Just look at the rotation of businesses on lower Johnson. There isn't a season where a store (or more) doesn't close.


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#124 dasmo

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:12 PM

Then how come we have soooo many boutique book stores downtown? Heck, Russel has expanded! Then again, we also have the largest online retailer of books in Victoria too....


Edited by dasmo, 03 July 2014 - 02:13 PM.


#125 jonny

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:19 PM

I agree that online retail has hit some retailers hard. Take motorcycle clothing/gear for instance.

 

For others, not so much.

 

Stores closing on Johnson? I don't know for sure what the turnover is, but I suspect stores have opened and closed since the dawn of retail.

 

Like I said earlier, the experience is paramount. Rummaging through the racks, finding those hidden gem Sale items. Most shopping is not out of necessity, but out of a desire to get something that gives us that immediate satisfaction. You don't get that same feeling shopping online.

 

Maybe not as much for us guys (I think most of us are guys), but even tech savvy ladies in their 20's love going shopping and when they try on something that actually fits their bodies and they want they buy it now. They don't spend search Google for the best deal and then wait two weeks to get that pair of pants they really liked.

 

Anyway, that's my $0.02.



#126 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:22 PM

This type of shopping in increasing in droves and small business retailers in particular are finding it tougher and tougher to keep their stores (particularly clothing stores) open.

 

I was going to say clothing is the one thing that will take an awful long time to come of age online.  Unless it's expensive stuff that you are not that concerned with fit (Coach bags etc.).


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#127 Greg

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:47 PM

Retailers are very vocal about Amazon and it's ilk if you bring up the topic. I'd be willing to bet every small business retailer has had people walk in, try on their wares, then walk out and purchase the same goods online, sometimes even asking the retailer to match the online price or they'll walk.

My sense is we'll lose traditional retailers in the not too distant future [...]

We'll lose the ones who are busy complaining about competition instead of trying to figure out how to value-add services people are interested in paying for, and good riddance to them.



#128 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 05:55 PM

We'll lose the ones who are busy complaining about competition instead of trying to figure out how to value-add services people are interested in paying for, and good riddance to them.

 

Yup.  Why don't local retailers REALLY talk about what they can do that onliners can't.  Extended warranties.  Over-the-counter immediate exchanges for defective goods.  Trade-ins/ups.  "Test-drives".  Installations.  Delivery and set-up.  Free delivery.  Service packages.  Loyalty points etc.  Trade-ins, lay-away and creative financing.  Rentals.  Leases.  That's what they need to scream, rather than just "Shop Local!".


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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#129 LJ

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 06:29 PM

I was going to say clothing is the one thing that will take an awful long time to come of age online.  Unless it's expensive stuff that you are not that concerned with fit (Coach bags etc.).

I think LL Bean and Land's End are doing pretty good. Their success comes from their terrific returns policies and quality goods, at decent prices.


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#130 Mike K.

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 05:56 AM

Yup. Why don't local retailers REALLY talk about what they can do that onliners can't. Extended warranties. Over-the-counter immediate exchanges for defective goods. Trade-ins/ups. "Test-drives". Installations. Delivery and set-up. Free delivery. Service packages. Loyalty points etc. Trade-ins, lay-away and creative financing. Rentals. Leases. That's what they need to scream, rather than just "Shop Local!".


The reason why the shop local movement is what it is is because those suggestions are impractical. Margins are small and online stores heavily undercut the ability to price up.

Never underestimate how ruthless many customers will be. They'll exploit any "value added" service to the point where it's a money loser for a business. Otherwise businesses would be bending over backwards offering "test drives" for that knife set you want to buy ;)

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#131 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 06:14 AM

The reason why the shop local movement is what it is is because those suggestions are impractical. Margins are small and online stores heavily undercut the ability to price up.

Never underestimate how ruthless many customers will be. They'll exploit any "value added" service to the point where it's a money loser for a business. Otherwise businesses would be bending over backwards offering "test drives" for that knife set you want to buy ;)

 

Oh, I know, a couple times I've worked in retail it's shocking the volume or returns or attempted returns.  But local retailers have to do something that onliners just can't, if they can not compete on initial sale price alone, so there is just a partial list I came up with.  I mean, when I go to The Source for even the smallest item, at least the sales clerk tries to hit me up for the extended warranty - a face-to-face purchase that online retailers don't get the opportunity to upsell.  So here we have a national chain, training their employees well, to compete with online (some of it their own).  And look, Capital Iron will set up your new BBQ, deliver it to you, take away your old one.  Great!   Now I want to walk into Robinson's Sporting Goods, and when I buy pair of hiking boots,  I want to be told that I can bring them back after 2 weeks, after my first hike, and for an extra $25 they will take them back, no questions asked, and apply my balance to a new pair.

 

Buy the pair for $225.

Go hiking, they are not right.

Come back, get a $200 credit on a new pair.

 

Same for tents if it's the wrong size (did not fit all 4 of us as we thought it might).

 

Or ask their customer where they are going with those new shoes?  Some park near Cranbrook?  Ah, cool, you know what, with those shoes we'll throw in this $10 GC from Cranbrook Outfitters, for any last minute goods you need when you get there!

 

That's the kind of stuff onliners just can't do.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#132 sebberry

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 06:24 AM

Local retailers would be really hurting if online stores didn't have such big barriers to doing business in Canada. 

 

Frankly I don't want to be upsold on an extended warranty for a $4 watch battery at The Source.  (Their customer service leaves a lot to be desired too). 

 

Think I could find a USB OTG cable (pretty common) locally for my tablet?  It was easier to stick it on my last Amazon order... 

 

Amazon Canada's product selection is miniscule compared to Amazon US.  Zappos, a well liked online shoe and clothing retailer in the US stopped shipping to Canada due to a whole variety of reasons. 

 

I walked into Sears the other day looking for a 4AH Craftsman C3 battery for my tools.  No, not available in Canada, but we'll sell you the 1.5AH battery for the same price.  Oh, and the rest of the tools in the C3 system?  Nah, we only have half of what's available in the US.  Craftsman/Amazon won't ship them here either. 


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#133 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 06:38 AM

^ Ya, and that's the kind of stuff that makes our national productivity lag the US.  We need to work on that.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#134 spanky123

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 06:54 AM

Yup.  Why don't local retailers REALLY talk about what they can do that onliners can't.  Extended warranties.  Over-the-counter immediate exchanges for defective goods.  Trade-ins/ups.  "Test-drives".  Installations.  Delivery and set-up.  Free delivery.  Service packages.  Loyalty points etc.  Trade-ins, lay-away and creative financing.  Rentals.  Leases.  That's what they need to scream, rather than just "Shop Local!".


What I find tacky are the consumers that use the local retailers for the value-add (ie pre-sales consultation, sizing, test-drives, etc) and then snap the UPC using the Amazon app and order it online. Even worse are the ones who buy local because they need something right away and then return it once item they ordered online arrives.

Edited by spanky123, 04 July 2014 - 06:55 AM.


#135 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 07:02 AM

What I find tacky are the consumers that use the local retailers for the value-add (ie pre-sales consultation, sizing, test-drives, etc) and then snap the UPC using the Amazon app and order it online. Even worse are the ones who buy local because they need something right away and then return it once item they ordered online arrives.

 

Yes, that's tricky for sure.  Of course, no retailer is required to give refunds.  They have to take back defective product and give you new, or repair it, but they are never required to give a full refund, unless their own policy allows it.  Most online retailers don't give full refunds, you have to at least pay the shipping back.

 

Of course tightening return policies at the local level makes competing harder.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#136 Mike K.

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 07:13 AM

Wal-Mart coming to a small town is one thing but the Internet even made Wal-Mart push suppliers to the breaking point in order to offer prices no other retailer, online or not, could offer.

 

What will save the retail industry is a two-tiered consumer and clothing goods scenario. Order online and you're limited to only five colours, but your local retailer will offer the full range of 10 colours, etc. Or for clothing, some manufacturers are now limiting what their online store clients can sell or they only ship clothing from the previous season in order to ensure their brick-and-mortar retailers get at least three or four months of inventory that online retailers cannot get. One of the downtown clothiers I frequent has a setup just like this, but I have to wonder how long before the manufacturer receives an order from an online giant that they can't refuse and just buckle to their demands.


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#137 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 07:20 AM

 

What will save the retail industry is a two-tiered consumer and clothing goods scenario. Order online and you're limited to only five colours, but your local retailer will offer the full range of 10 colours, etc. Or for clothing, some manufacturers are now limiting what their online store clients can sell or they only ship clothing from the previous season in order to ensure their brick-and-mortar retailers get at least three or four months of inventory that online retailers cannot get. One of the downtown clothiers I frequent has a setup just like this, but I have to wonder how long before the manufacturer receives an order from an online giant that they can't refuse and just buckle to their demands.

 

But this sounds like you want someone (I'm unclear who) to stifle online sales and selection.  Why?  Surely a warehouse in Chicago can stock 100 colours if they are shipping mass quantities (in one and two at a time direct to consumers) every day to all corners of the planet.  Why should they have LESS than the storefront retailer in Nanaimo?


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#138 spanky123

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 07:27 AM

Wal-Mart coming to a small town is one thing but the Internet even made Wal-Mart push suppliers to the breaking point in order to offer prices no other retailer, online or not, could offer.
 
What will save the retail industry is a two-tiered consumer and clothing goods scenario. Order online and you're limited to only five colours, but your local retailer will offer the full range of 10 colours, etc. Or for clothing, some manufacturers are now limiting what their online store clients can sell or they only ship clothing from the previous season in order to ensure their brick-and-mortar retailers get at least three or four months of inventory that online retailers cannot get. One of the downtown clothiers I frequent has a setup just like this, but I have to wonder how long before the manufacturer receives an order from an online giant that they can't refuse and just buckle to their demands.


I think that was the approach with Walmart but from what I hear Amazon operates differently. Amazon does not price products, the manufacturers or retailers set their own prices on Amazon and then Amazon takes a shipping, handling and marketing fee. It is essentially then the retailers and manufacturers who beat each other up on pricing to positions their goods more attractively.

What I hear Walmart is doing is setting up a site very similar to Amazon but which allows consumers to pick up the item at their local Walmart if it is available but return it to their local Walmart even if it was shipped to them. That would solve the one issue Amazon has with returns.

#139 Mike K.

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 07:28 AM

Who knows, but that's what some manufacturers are doing.

Remember that it's not the big retailer who takes a hit when a product has returns or doesn't move, the supplier does. Online stores likely result in high quantities of returns and this is a major hassle for a supplier.

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#140 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 07:30 AM

Remember that it's not the big retailer who takes a hit when a product has returns or doesn't move, the supplier does. 

 

But even the retailer has to commit staff time to this.  So there is some cost.  Now, of course, to go back to your last post, I'm unclear that retailing "needs saving" any more than full-service gas stations need saving.  We adapted, moved to a new model.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

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