819 replies to this topic

[aastra]

Some more to consider. I like the fundamental point about motorists also being pedestrians. I say the same thing all the time: when you get right down to it we're all pedestrians, regardless of how we might like to think of ourselves. The basic act of getting around the immediate area on the ground is not a "mode" equivalent to driving or cycling. If we aren't fully accommodating the basic act of experiencing the immediate area on the ground at a walking pace then we've failed totally.

 

 

Daily Colonist
October 28, 1962

New Traffic Proposals May Bypass Pedestrian

Pity the poor pedestrian.

City council recently initiated a new study of one way streets; it is also giving serious consideration to construction of an extension to Blanshard Street that would allow traffic to move freely between the new $6,000,00 Mayfair shopping centre on Douglas and the downtown area.

With backing of downtown merchants, it is already constructing a new 400-car parking garage on View Street, and plans in the near future to build a smaller garage on Yates.

The present plan -- not yet formally adopted by council, but near to it -- would doom the pedestrian walk signal at Yates and Douglas referred to with varying shades of affection and dislike (depending on viewpoint) as the "amble-scramble" light.

It is reputed to be the last of its kind in North America, but there is no doubt of its popularity with pedestrians, and with some merchants in the immediate area as well who claim that people will walk a couple of blocks out of their way to use it.

The traffic experts, whose main concern is moving automobiles quickly and efficiently, argue that it only allows 18 seconds of green for Douglas traffic and 22 seconds of traffic movement on Yates.

Which, in turn, raises the question of whether the needs of pedestrians in the downtown area should ever be subjugated to requirements of through traffic. It doesn't seem reasonable that this should be so.

The automobile is here to stay. Pedestrian malls such as those envisioned for lower View Street, Bastion Square, Broad Street, Chinatown, and Centennial Square are of little use without traffic arteries and off-street parking facilities.

Town planners like to use terms like "human scale" and "freedom from the eroding forces of the auto." But in simple terms this means: downtown is or should be for people.

The traffic experts tend to forget that the same motorist they seek to speed on his way, once he has parked his automobile, becomes a pedestrian. The downtown area, already our most diversified shopping centre, must also become more convenient if it is to meet the challenges from suburban competitors.

[Nparker]

...Town planners like to use terms like "human scale" and "freedom from the eroding forces of the auto." But in simple terms this means: downtown is or should be for people. The traffic experts tend to forget that the same motorist they seek to speed on his way, once he has parked his automobile, becomes a pedestrian. The downtown area, already our most diversified shopping centre, must also become more convenient if it is to meet the challenges from suburban competitors...

As true in 2020 as it was in 1962.

[aastra]

The same points were being made in 1973 that we still make today.

 

 

Daily Colonist
September 30, 1973

Old Town Area Restored

Historic Lower Yates Now Has a New Look

Two years ago, lower Yates Street between Government and Wharf was little but an assembly of dilapidated buildings that seemed to be coming to the end of their days.

But today there's a new look to that historic part of Victoria.

Several buildings in the 500 Block have been restored to their former beauty. Old brick facades once again display their original warmth.

Former warehouses have been turned into restaurants, specialty shops and offices.

Adrian Greenbank is one of the men who took a chance on investing money in restoring old buildings, rather than tearing them down...

...Greenbank bought a warehouse at 535 Yates.

"We ripped out most of the interior, dug the main floor 18 inches deeper so we could put in a mezzanine floor, and then rebuilt the interior completely,"

While most people talk about "beautiful downtown Victoria," Greenbank starts from a different premise.

"We have an ugly city. Our downtown is a bloody mess. It's so bad, you don't know where to start if you want to beautify it."

...Greenbank went on to explain what he thinks a beautiful city should look like.

"...I think a downtown must have people living in it if it wants to amount to anything," he said.

"It's very difficult to convert old buildings into rental accommodation because the economic returns are less than half of the commercial use."

"For that reason, I'm not against tearing down some of the old junk we have in the downtown area and replacing it with modern, even highrise buildings," he said.

Highrises, Greenbank added, don't have to be inhuman and ugly. They can be blended in with any other architecture.

He blamed architects for not living up to their obligations. A good example, Greenbank said, was the city parking garage, next to his building.

The unimaginative concrete structure painted in a dull red, he said, could be "dressed up" to fit in with the new spirit of the 500 Block Yates, but that would cost money which neither the city, nor merchants were willing to invest.

[aastra]

I'd suggest (as I always do) that Victoria actually DID end up settling upon its own unique formula: a combination of preservation/restoration in some places and decent new development in other places, which produced a good amount of variety in styles and formats, differentiated the various districts of the city centre to some degree, added a bit of population density, and thus sharpened the "small big city" character which has become such a key element of Victoria's modern identity. That's why the resistance to restoring & redeveloping Northern Junk has been so frustrating. It would work perfectly with all of the good stuff that has happened recently, but certain forces seemed to have missed about ~25 years worth of memos.

 

[aastra]

Too many floatplanes in the harbour... in 1978.

 

There are some grim prognostications in this article: multiple airlines operating at the same time (which would obviously be disastrous & unworkable) as versus a virtual monopoly by a single airline (which would obviously be disastrous & unworkable). Let's hope neither of those disastrous & unworkable situations ever ends up materializing.

 

 

Daily Colonist
July 5, 1978

Inner Harbor can't handle two airlines

At the risk of "promoting a monopoly," the city of Victoria will tell the federal government that it is opposed to a second float plane company operating out of the Inner Harbor.

(Mayor) Young said he didn't care which of the two companies got the licence, but there wasn't room for both. He said there was already too much air traffic at the Inner Harbor.

Ald. John Hayes pointed out that the city's stand meant promoting a monopoly, but added that he couldn't see any alternative.

"We can't have the Inner Harbor jammed with three or four carriers," he said.

 

*****

The CoV envisioned an overhead walkway across Wharf Street. It really does never change, this CoV attitude that there are always -- ALWAYS -- desperate issues related to traffic flow that must be addressed, preferably at great cost and often involving great disruption.

 

 

Daily Colonist
July 5, 1978

Province asked to share cost of Wharf crossing

Because a pedestrian crossing at Wharf Street from Bastion Square to a proposed waterfront development will completely disrupt the existing traffic pattern, the city of Victoria wants the provincial government to share in the cost of straightening out the resulting traffic chaos.

To partly offset the detrimental effects of a level crossing on the Wharf Street traffic pattern, the city says it must install a new traffic signal, widen Wharf Street at Fort and Bastion Square, and construct a "pedestrian refuge" at the crossing.

The city says the provincial government should pay part of the cost because it insisted on a level crossing instead of a skywalk which the city would have preferred.

Edited by aastra, 23 July 2020 - 08:41 PM.

[Rob Randall]

Clearly having one and a half airlines is a brilliant compromise.

[aastra]

That would be disastrous and unworkable.

[aastra]

I don't know... doesn't the scenario seem far-fetched, that there was a serious scourge of east-west commuter traffic through Fairfield? Obviously Oak Bay couldn't have been producing a burdensome amount of traffic, and (also obviously) Fairfield's local traffic was Fairfield's local traffic.

 

I suppose the premise was all about sneaky Saanich commuters skirting around downtown rather than driving straight through downtown? Using Cook Street, maybe? (this also seems a bit absurd, since nobody ever mentions the rivers of commuter traffic on Cook Street or Quadra or whichever route the traffic was supposed to be favouring) But then I still have to ask... where were they going if they were sneaking around downtown? Can I really believe the legislative precinct all by itself was producing so much traffic?

 

 

Daily Colonist
April 25, 1974

There'll be a hush on streets

No through-car plan for James Bay

Elimination of through traffic on several narrow streets in James Bay, starting in 1975, is one of the objectives outlined in a comprehensive transportation policy for Victoria's central area.

The policy statement stresses the importance of accommodating people and transit, rather than the automobile.

"To improve the environment of downtown for the pedestrian and thereby reinforce its attractiveness, particularly as a shopping and recreation area."

The development of bypass routes for through traffic -- especially commuter traffic to and from the legislature precinct -- to skirt the shopping and pedestrian core has been a city planning priority for years.

Once the Blanshard realignment is completed, Collinson will be restricted to hospital access only and this, the city says, will "greatly reduce Fairfield's effectiveness as an east-west connector.

Other proposals to the government:

-To consider a downtown "people-mover" system "to link office, shopping, parking and amenity locales throughout the Central Area and possibly James Bay."

-To restrict employee parking in the government's new downtown office sites to not more than one parking stall for every six employees, "to minimize growth in rush-hour congestion."

-To include within its projects facilities for short-term parking so as to relieve on-street parking and allow the creation of special transit lanes.

Edited by aastra, 23 October 2020 - 09:08 AM.

[aastra]

 

I suppose the premise was all about sneaky Saanich commuters skirting around downtown rather than driving straight through downtown? Using Cook Street, maybe?

 

There were mixed messages, for sure. Were they (the CoV and its traffic engineers) trying to protect the neighbourhoods or exploit the neighbourhoods? Check it out:

 

 

Daily Colonist
October 22, 1953

Start Planning Now Traffic Chief Urges

"Our aim should be to continue to ease congestion in the heart of the city and keeping the downtown area alive and vital,"

Among the most important changes to be considered for 1964 are creation of new traffic routes leading to the downtown area.

These include extension of Superior Street to Southgate and Cook Street and possibly the northward extension of Vancouver Street. Both, if carried out, would help keep heavy morning and evening rush hour traffic out of the heart of the city.

Edited by aastra, 23 July 2020 - 09:34 PM.

[Rob Randall]

You did not want any traffic mingling. You can't have Victoria's Volkswagens and Chevys mixing with Oak Bay's Jaguar E-types and Austin A-50s.

[aastra]

I'm having trouble picturing how the eventual preservation & restoration of the Northern Junk buildings was supposed to figure into all of this. If old buildings were erased to create the space for Reeson Park, then a suspicious person might wonder if anyone was ever really interested in preserving the older buildings right next door. It could certainly explain why the recent effort to save the Northern Junk buildings has met such strong resistance over the past several years. If I ever meet a suspicious person I'll be sure to ask him about this.

 

 

Daily Colonist
July 26, 1979

 

New scene for Wharf

New concept for Victoria's Reeson Park on Wharf Street at foot of Yates won preliminary approval of Capital Region Board directors Wednesday morning.

...the scheme provides for renovation of existing wharf and construction of covered deck above... pebble beach in behind, grassed bowl-shaped area and a small treed plaza at the Wharf Street level... closing off unused lane and incorporating small traffic island near Johnson Street bridge.

 

**********

 

Every old building (or former old building) outlined in red below has been wiped out. Almost every one of those buildings was replaced with void (an odd manner by which to preserve and celebrate Victoria's heritage and history, for sure). But we're supposed to believe the Northern Junk buildings (outlined in green) were never in any danger? The dilatory shenanigans of the 2010s don't seem quite so endearing when you consider them in this light.

 

 

crop of aerial pic from https://vintageairphotos.com/1-66/

 

Edited by aastra, 23 July 2020 - 10:27 PM.

[aastra]

Perpetual crisis:

 

 

Daily Colonist
August 15, 1979

Sidewalks taken over by wheelers

Joggers, cyclists and riders of skateboards are taking over Victoria sidewalks and there appears to be little the city can do to solve the problem.

A letter from Tourism B.C. operations services director William Taylor, citing complaints receiving from visitors, sparked the discussion.

Tourists had complained of being "practically run over by a roller-skater on Government Street," and of "old men and ladies walking along the waterfront being pushed off the sidewalk by joggers,"

He also gave complaints of bicycles being ridden on downtown sidewalks.

[aastra]

Every municipality uses the same tactics of faux-urgency to justify roadwork projects:

 

 

Daily Colonist
April 25, 1974

Oak Bay council eyes three small stores

Oak Bay council intends expropriating a property containing three small stores at 2049-2053 Cadboro Bay to get better traffic access for its sport complex near the junior and senior high schools.

"The property is needed to extend Bee Street northerly to intersect Cadboro Bay Road," Ald. Doug Watts said. "We need this to cope with the traffic that will (be) generated by the new complex. We have attempted to negotiate but have not been successful."

[Victoria Watcher]

that “sport complex” has aged incredibly well.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 July 2020 - 10:45 AM.

[aastra]

When you consider how Victorians are so obsessed with the heights of buildings, it's funny how often the floor-counts are wrong in news articles and other media coverage. We see this right up to the present day. I suppose in this case they were deliberately not counting the ground level? (British-style?)

 

 

Daily Colonist
May 25, 1963

"Open House" Launches High Rise

Victoria's newest high-rise apartment, Seaview Towers, 450 Dallas Road at Menzies, will be opened to the public Saturday...

The "open house" marks the end of 10 months of construction to complete the 10-storey (plus penthouse) apartment block.

[Rob Randall]

Isn't it because back then height limits were prescribed by number of storeys, not the height? Hence 1960s developers adding height by loopholes like the "manager's suite" atop an otherwise four storey apartment.

[aastra]

I think they were skipping the ground floor as per the UK convention. I call it a 12-story building, but they call it a 10-story building plus ground floor plus penthouse.

[aastra]

 

Isn't it because back then height limits were prescribed by number of storeys, not the height?

 

Were there any such height restrictions on the books in 1963? The magical 14-story restriction for downtown was still ~10 years away. I know I saw an article about re-zoning James Bay to ban highrises altogether, but I'm pretty sure that was years later.

 

--

 

Edit: To answer my own question...

 

 

Daily Colonist
November 3, 1960

Slab to Mark Start of "High-Rise" Block

Victoria's first "high-rise" apartment block has begun rising on Douglas across from Beacon Hill Park.

When complete, the block being built by Westcott Construction Ltd. will have eight storeys and 60 suites.

Three areas in James Bay were recently rezoned to allow this type of development, with a height limit of 12 storeys.

...city planning and inspection chief Roderick Clack said yesterday he has had "five or six serious discussions" in connection with possible other applications.

Edited by aastra, 25 November 2020 - 05:47 PM.

[aastra]

If my theory about the floor-counting method is correct, they had changed their tune and started counting in more sensible non-British fashion by the early 1970s:

 

 

Daily Colonist
August 10, 1973

Highrise Ban In Motion For James Bay

Machinery for a massive over-all zoning down of properties in James Bay were set in motion Thursday when Victoria city council gave approval in principle to elimination of all highrise zones in the area.

Elimination of all existing highrise zones constitutes the first phase of the James Bay Study, prepared earlier this year by the city's planning department.

The second phase was introduced at Thursday's council meeting. It deals with zoning down other substantial parts of James Bay from medium-density to duplex zoning.

It is the second phase, elimination of much of the area's medium-density zones, that is expected to cause the biggest uproar...

Most of the four-storey frame apartments were built in James Bay under the R-3 medium-density zone. Property owners, whose land is now zoned for medium-density, will not be able to get maximum yield from their land if it's zoned down to duplex use.

Edited by aastra, 28 July 2020 - 11:07 AM.

[Nparker]

The magical 14-story restriction for downtown was still ~10 years away

And just exactly how was this magical height limit determined? Were numbers placed into a hat and some civic official drew out 14 randomly? Was 13 left out of the running for its obvious unlucky connotation? If 14 was deliberately chosen, why not 15? It seems like a more logical choice, you know, right in the middle between 10 (kinda short) and 20 (far too Dubai-esque). I am sure there's a Master's thesis in here somewhere.