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The More Victoria Changes, the More It Stays the Same...


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#501 Mike K.

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Posted 28 November 2020 - 08:45 AM

Million bucks to build, with the 24 homes going for $37-$40k? You’re $40k short if every unit sold for $40k.
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#502 aastra

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Posted 28 November 2020 - 08:50 AM

There's never not an urgent crisis of some sort. Recreation centres and swimming pools have been an urgent crisis at least four or five times in the history of Victoria/Saanich/Oak Bay:

 

 

Daily Colonist
December 28, 1966

Saanich Arena Urgent Need

Saanich, with a total population of 60,000, including 12,068 school-age youngsters, is totally dependent on neighboring municipalities for indoor recreational facilities, according to a 120-page recreation report...

Lack of facilities in both Saanich and Oak Bay is overtaxing those provided by Victoria and Esquimalt, the report says.

It will take about five years and $2,325,000 for Saanich to provide even the minimum facilities required by its present population.

With the population expected to increase to 100,000 by 1981, it will take 20 years and $4,500,000 before there are enough recreational facilities in the municipality.

The report notes that standards of development to satisfy municipal needs have been set by the National Recreation Association and the Vancouver Board of Parks and Recreation.

 

(aastra says: you should always follow Vancouver's example, it's practically Victoria's unofficial motto, right?)

OVER-ALL NEEDS
"If the standard proposed is met by Saanich, the over-all requirements for major facilities for Greater Victoria will also be satisfied," states the report.

"This report shows that there is a real shortage of skating and indoor swimming facilities in Greater Victoria and that this shortage directly affects Saanich residents."

INADEQUATE
"It has also been shown that facilities for the arts, crafts, and related activities are inadequate for the whole region, and practically non-existent in Saanich. Facilities for the elderly are similarly overtaxed,"

The report recommends the development of three integrated community centres in Saanich, with a fourth to be built when future population warrants, plus two separate senior citizens' centres.

The study favors the development of a number of smaller facilities rather than one big centre.

If a single central centre was chosen and an arena built, it would be necessary by 1981 to build a duplicate arena alongside it. This would apply to any other facilities built at the centre.

Difficulties of access were also taken into consideration. By distributing facilities throughout the municipality the number of people within walking and easy driving distance... would be two or three times as great as for a single centre.

The "ultimate" development of a community centre would include facilities for all major recreational activities -- ice sports, swimming, arts, crafts and hobbies, gymnasium sports and social activities suitable for all age groups.

THREE AREAS
Tillicum Park -- part of municipal property at the Trans-Canada Highway and Burnside Road -- is recommended for development, along with the McRae Estate in the Cedar Hill area, and the Lambrick Estate in Gordon Head.

McRAE ESTATE
The site on the McRae Estate, to serve the Gordon Head and Cedar Hill areas is on the section north of the proposed route of Tattersal Drive.

This site will ultimately be near the population centre of the Cedar Hill Region.

This site is recommended only if Tattersall Drive is extended... as proposed in the report on major road construction by the Saanich engineering department.

PART OF GOLF COURSE
The site is a portion of the present Cedar Hill golf course, and the destruction of one recreational facility to provide another would be poor in principle, the report says.

However, the proposed extension would cut off this portion from the golf course, making it inevitable that the golf course would lose the land.

The phases recommended are as follows:

-Arena, Tillicum Park
-25-metre pool, McRae Estate
-Community Centre, McRae Estate
-Community Centre, Tillicum Park
-25-metre pool, Tillicum Park
-Community Centre, Lambrick Estate
-25-metre pool, Lambrick Estate
-Arena, Lambrick Estate
-Future integrated community centre, North end, Saanich


Edited by aastra, 28 November 2020 - 08:50 AM.


#503 Nparker

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Posted 28 November 2020 - 08:50 AM

I guess developers weren't as greedy back then as they are today. ;)


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#504 aastra

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Posted 28 November 2020 - 08:52 AM

It's true, evil developers hadn't been invented yet (you just need to ignore all of the old news items in which people were complaining about the evils of new development).


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#505 aastra

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Posted 28 November 2020 - 08:53 AM

-Future integrated community centre, North end, Saanich

 

The "ultimate" development of a community centre would include facilities for all major recreational activities -- ice sports, swimming, arts, crafts and hobbies, gymnasium sports and social activities suitable for all age groups.

 

You might say this hypothetical facility envisioned in 1966 would be for the common wealth of the community.
 


Edited by aastra, 28 November 2020 - 08:53 AM.


#506 aastra

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Posted 28 November 2020 - 08:57 AM

 

Million bucks to build, with the 24 homes going for $37-$40k? You’re $40k short of every unit sold for $40k.

 

The word "profit" wasn't even invented until the mid-1980s.


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#507 aastra

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Posted 28 November 2020 - 09:05 AM

^An ad in July, 1971 says "prices from $43,000".

 

Another ad in December, 1970: "priced from $43,000"


Edited by aastra, 28 November 2020 - 09:08 AM.


#508 aastra

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 10:16 PM

After 21 years of the housing crisis it must have been refreshing to have a housing snag for a bit, before the housing crisis resumed again for the next 54 years:

 

 

December 29, 1966

Housing Snag Ahead

Housing will be one of the biggest problems facing Canada in 1967, Northern Affairs Minister Laing said...

The minister predicted an increase in public housing to provide residences for the more than 30 per cent of Canadians -- mostly young married couples -- whom he said haven't the ability to buy or build homes.

Mr. Laing said he also expected to see a change in the way houses were built.

He said one of the cures to the housing problem probably lies in the building of homes by factories as opposed to on-the-site construction which he said was less economical.


Edited by aastra, 29 November 2020 - 10:17 PM.

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#509 aastra

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 11:27 AM

Maybe Pandora has always been the avenue of perpetual revision? Who could have predicted that it would one day turn into a box of troubles?

 

 

Daily Colonist
May 29, 1963

High Quality Pandora Plan

Development of Pandora Avenue as a thoroughfare lined with high-quality institutional buildings was envisioned by Ald. M. H. Mooney.

Plans for a new federal building at Pandora and Vancouver, still in the early stages, will reinforce the development of the "new look" for Pandora Avenue which has been started by private enterprise.

The B.C. Automobile Club recently announced plans to build its new headquarters at Pandora and Cook. Nearby is the existing medical building and a short distance away the St. John Ambulance headquarters which both fit well into the pattern of development...

Sparking the facelifting of Pandora from the western end of the street will be the city's $2,000,000 Centennial Square development.

"This federal government proposal fits in well with our plans for the future development of Pandora with a high standard of buildings," said Ald. Mooney, chairman of the town planning committee.

"Some day we hope Pandora will surpass Georgia Street as a model for this type of development."
 


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#510 Nparker

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 11:36 AM

Some day we hope Pandora will surpass Georgia Street as a model for this type of development.

Mooney was a modern day Nostradamus.

WG.PNG

PANDORA.PNG

 



#511 aastra

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 12:40 PM

It definitely raises some questions:

 

1) Why did (and why does) Pandora Ave always need to be re-worked and re-envisioned? Whatever it's like right now, it always needs to be changed.

 

 

Harris Green: doom with a view?
Gene Miller - Times-Colonist, July 1997

Those of us with mid-range memories have a picture of the area as the centre of things automotive: auto dealerships, auto repair, used car sales, auto painting, car battery salvage, and more. Along with battery salvage was [and is] the salvage of souls: nine of the city's oldest churches, our venerable synagogue and several church missions...

Where a condo tower, The Pacific Monarch, now stands, just east of the Revenue Canada building [which, by the way, is being gut- renovated and enlarged - your tax dollars at work] used to be Victoria's hottest restaurant, and the entertainment capital of the Capital City, George's Bavarian. Nightly, Pablo the maitre d' [the restaurant should have been called Pablo's Bavarian] would assume a flamenco-style toreador's stance - heels together, back dramatically arched - and unerringly pour a cascade of flaming brandy from one goblet to another. "Ole!" we diners would shout, giddy with excitement and pleasure. Kids, this was a very long time ago.

 

2) Why should anyone have wanted to emulate Georgia Street in the early 1960s?

 

3) Why should anyone have wanted to emulate Georgia Street on -- of all streets -- Pandora Ave? Why not Douglas or Blanshard? Georgia Street was where most of Vancouver's major downtown buildings were, including the Hotel Vancouver and the grand HBC store. Does that sound like Pandora Ave or does that sound more like 1960s Douglas Street?

 

4) Why have so many Victorians (especially CoV politicians and staff) always been so oblivious about the Harris Green? Why do truly unique things always get overlooked in the never-ending quest to clarify Victoria's uniqueness?

 

5) How the heck could this 1963 vision to turn Pandora Ave into a superior version of Georgia Street possibly jibe with the 1963 vision to turn Pandora Ave into a suburban-format autopia?

 

 

Daily Colonist
July 7, 1963

Stage Set for Centennial Square Creation

Main east-west thoroughfare will be new role for Pandora Avenue, which will curve through park-like setting in Centennial Square to provide access to Cormorant at Government Street.


Edited by aastra, 19 December 2020 - 01:57 PM.

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#512 aastra

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 12:59 PM

Also, check this out. More than 15 years later, Victorians were looking forward to the first downtown McDonald's on Douglas Street (meaning: the ~1969 Pandora McDonald's was not downtown?). And yet in the early 1960s the CoV was positioning Pandora to be the equivalent of Georgia Street? Modern urban planning in Victoria has tended to be senseless and forced, grinding against the natural grain of things.

 

Daily Colonist
July 18, 1979

Two-decker coming up

The golden arches of McDonald's may yet grace downtown Victoria.

The hamburger firm announced Tuesday it would open an outlet at 1130 Douglas, between Fort and View.


 



#513 Rob Randall

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 01:10 PM

Can we add the Pandora tax office to the long list of buildings on the edge of town intended to define a new urban centre? Like the bank building at Fort and Cook, the Scott Building at Douglas and Hillside, The Hudson's Bay?



#514 aastra

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 01:13 PM

 

2) Why should anyone have wanted to emulate Georgia Street in the early 1960s?

 

Upon further review, I suppose CoV officials were feeling envious of the new post office building in Vancouver? Overwhelmingly massive and modern, and not a highrise: I expect many city planners in post-1945 Victoria would have regarded it as the embodiment of those ideal traits.

 

 

When it opened in 1958 after five years of design and construction, this was the largest single building in Vancouver and one of the largest Federal buildings in a Western Canadian city; only airport passenger terminal buildings were built to a larger scale.
from http://heritagevanco...in-post-office/

 

--

 

 

Daily Colonist
May 29, 1963

High Quality Pandora Plan

"This federal government proposal fits in well with our plans for the future development of Pandora with a high standard of buildings," said Ald. Mooney, chairman of the town planning committee.

"Some day we hope Pandora will surpass Georgia Street as a model for this type of development."


Edited by aastra, 19 December 2020 - 01:19 PM.


#515 aastra

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 01:50 PM

 

"Some day we hope Pandora will surpass Georgia Street as a model for this type of development."

 

Depending on the issue, Victorians are either staunchly opposed to following Vancouver's example or strongly committed to following Vancouver's example.



#516 Nparker

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 02:50 PM

Depending on the issue, Victorians are either staunchly opposed to following Vancouver's example or strongly committed to following Vancouver's example.

Often at the same time in regards to the same plan.


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#517 Mike K.

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 03:36 AM

Well, since half of Vancouver lives here half of the time, I’d fully expect as much.
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#518 aastra

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 09:12 AM

I'm not sure if you're too clever by half or just full of it.



#519 Mike K.

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 11:23 AM

I’m about half full, thank you very much.

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#520 Nparker

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Posted 20 December 2020 - 11:25 AM

I’m about half full, thank you very much.

Is that the same as being half tanked?  :rolleyes:



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