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Local road and highway development, conditions


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#3001 Nparker

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 07:50 AM

...you would prefer the characterization of the removal of the outside lanes be more brutal than "road diet"?...

I am a non-car owner, but I still loath euphemisms like "road diet" to describe the systematic reduction of main arteries in our region into lower volume cow paths.


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#3002 DustMagnet

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:21 AM

I am a non-car owner, but I still loath euphemisms like "road diet" to describe the systematic reduction of main arteries in our region into lower volume cow paths.

Maybe a hyperbole diet is what's called for here - any reallotment of roadway results in a "cow path"?  :rolleyes: 

The fact is this: bicycles are road users.  There is no cars vs. bikes.  They are both enshrined in the law to use the roads.

 

So what's the deal with bike lanes then?  Why does one* road user get special treatment**?  I see bike lanes as a convenience for motor vehicles.  With the presence of bike lanes it is less likely*** that a car will be "stuck" behind a bike or need to pass the bike, the latter of which is a challenging manoeuvre for some drivers (as per my observations).

Ok, maybe a footnote diet is what's called for here.  ;)

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

* Not counting pedestrians which get their own infrastructure that no one seems to complain about.  If speed differential is the issue there (no bikes on sidewalks) then don't complain that bikes are slower than cars but can't have separate infrastructure.

** Or more accurately, redressing decades of car-centricism.  See affirmative action vs. institutional racism****.

 

*** Not guaranteed. See "both enshrined".

**** I'm not comparing transport infrastructure to racism, just one method used to redress it.


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#3003 rjag

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:37 AM


The fact is this: bicycles are road users.  There is no cars vs. bikes.  They are both enshrined in the law to use the roads.

 

So what's the deal with bike lanes then?  Why does one* road user get special treatment**?  I see bike lanes as a convenience for motor vehicles.  With the presence of bike lanes it is less likely*** that a car will be "stuck" behind a bike or need to pass the bike, the latter of which is a challenging manoeuvre for some drivers (as per my observations).

 

 

I dont have a problem with sharing the road and respect all users. In my prior life I was a professional driver and worked with BC Transit and HandiDart and appreciate and respect all users. 

 

My concern with road diets ie lane reduction/removals is the resultant slowing of the river of traffic while we see lots of these bike lanes sitting empty or underused. Where there were 2 lanes of fairly free flowing traffic that would be occasionally reduced to 1 lane when a bike was using a lane, things moved quite smoothly.

 

I would rather have seen more education on 'own the lane' combined with better driver training than the current waste of time Graduated Licensing Program and far greater enforcement. Whats happening with all the lane reductions is it simply breeds resentment, especially when folks see them sitting under-used. Pandora was disruptive but folks are getting used to it by diverting to other routes, Fort tho' was the nail in the coffin. 


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#3004 Brantastic

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:38 AM

I saw a sign on West Saanich by Royal Oak mall promoting a road upgrade. Unfortunately it was too quick and a little too far from the road to see clearly so I'm not sure exactly what they're doing but maybe they're finally fixing the WS/Quadra/Glanford intersection?

 

Also not really sure which topic this would go in but if anyone's looking for gas the Esso on Carey/Blanshard just by Uptown is 138.4 which is the cheapest I've seen it in a while. There was no one there when the bus went by.

Yeah, I mentioned this one in the bike lane thread. They're upgrading West Saanich between Glandford/Quadra and the entrance to the Royal Oak Shopping Centre to have bike lanes and proper side walks. 

Link:
http://www.saanich.c...splay Board.pdf



#3005 RFS

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:43 AM

I swear, if they gave us proper full on freeways with enough lanes and no traffic lights, and left major arteries alone, I could care less about the bike lanes in the city



#3006 rjag

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:53 AM

I swear, if they gave us proper full on freeways with enough lanes and no traffic lights, and left major arteries alone, I could care less about the bike lanes in the city

:thumbsup:

now you're talking! 

 

I'll let you choose which one your awesome statement falls under....  http://users.start.c...z/Diversion.htm

 

I'm thinking Straw Man....



#3007 RFS

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:57 AM

:thumbsup:
now you're talking!

I'll let you choose which one your awesome statement falls under.... http://users.start.c...z/Diversion.htm

I'm thinking Straw Man....


? It was a sincere statement
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#3008 rjag

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 09:02 AM

? It was a sincere statement

:)  :thumbsup:  :cheers:


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#3009 DustMagnet

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 09:38 AM

I swear, if they gave us proper full on freeways with enough lanes and no traffic lights, and left major arteries alone, I could care less about the bike lanes in the city

So, an infinite number of lanes then?



#3010 RFS

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 09:41 AM

So, an infinite number of lanes then?


I'll refer you to rjags link
http://users.start.c...z/Diversion.htm

#3011 DustMagnet

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 09:50 AM

I'll refer you to rjags link
http://users.start.c...z/Diversion.htm

Wait, are you meta-diverting?  What does fallacies of diversion have to do with pointing out that there is never "enough" lanes to avoid congestion - that's not even arguable.

 

Although I am assuming you mean enough lanes to avoid congestion.  The conditions to satisfy you may be different...?



#3012 Bingo

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 12:58 PM

So what's the deal with bike lanes then?  Why does one* road user get special treatment**?  

I see bike lanes as a convenience for motor vehicles.  With the presence of bike lanes it is less likely*** that a car will be "stuck" behind a bike or need to pass the bike, the latter of which is a challenging manoeuvre for some drivers (as per my observations).

 

But the cyclist do not have to use the separated bike lanes, and they don't like the two way lanes, so they ride in the vehicle lanes.



#3013 Coreyburger

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 12:59 PM

But the cyclist do not have to use the separated bike lanes, and they don't like the two way lanes, so they ride in the vehicle lanes.

Yes to the first part

Citation needed on the second part



#3014 DustMagnet

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 06:23 PM

But the cyclist do not have to use the separated bike lanes, and they don't like the two way lanes, so they ride in the vehicle lanes.

You are repeating my *** footnote. "Less likely; not guaranteed."

Cyclists don't have to use any bike lane unless specifically indicated by signage (which is rare, but sometimes seen on older bridges for example.)  

 

I use the two-way cycle lanes when I am on Pandora (haven't tried Fort yet), so your later statement is demonstrably untrue.

 

But I was talking about all bike lanes in general, and the way I see them, not necessarily other cyclists.  I see bike lanes as  a convenience for motorists because I don't impede motor vehicles when I am in them.

As an anecdote, I see far more cyclists in the bike lanes that out in my travels.


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#3015 nerka

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 09:44 AM

As an anecdote, I see far more cyclists in the bike lanes that out in my travels.

Agreed. I go down Pandora pretty regularly. Vast majority of the bikes use the lanes. It's true that on the one "no-man's land" block of Pandora you might see people wobbling all over the road on bikes and on foot. That is not an issue that is going to be solved by bike lanes, though



#3016 Bingo

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 01:21 PM

I am not sure where the appropriate forum is for this topic, so I will add it here.

 

And first I want to say that I know everyone in the city, and specifically her family, and those folks who witnessed and helped Leila yesterday morning in the crosswalk at Ash and Torquay are praying for her and urging her to fight very hard for her life.  

 

I live in Gordon Head, and go through this intersection almost daily.  And I know a number of folks on this forum also either live in, or have history with Gordon Head, and likely this intersection.

 

The accident yesterday got the wife and I chatting about what or if something needs to be done at this intersection.  I have a lot of thoughts about it, but am wondering what this forum thinks, as I know topics such as crosswalks, road infrastructure, and local road speeds are discussed here quite often.

 

Again, please pray for Leila.  

 

Full disclosure, I did witness this accident, and is likely why Leila and this topic is at the top of my mind right now.

 

 

The family of a Saanich girl who suffered life-threatening injuries after being hit by an SUV in December says she is “finally home”.

In a GoFundMe page update, the family says it is “together under one roof, a complete family again enjoying the “normal” chaos of a house of four kiddies.”

Leila was on her way to school December 20 when she was hit by an SUV at the intersection of Ash Road and Torquay Drive in Gordon Head.

She was placed in a medically induced coma and underwent spinal surgery in January.

The “Leila Bui’s Medical Fund” page has reached more than $15,000 from donations and a second GoFundMe page, “Little Leila Bui” that was established by the Torquay Parent Advisory Council, has raised over $20,000.

The combined funds are being used to renovate the home to meet Leila’s needs, the purchase of an accessible van, travel costs to and from Vancouver to visit Leila in hospital and time that was taken off work to care for her full-time.

https://www.cheknews...-an-suv-465193/



#3017 PraiseKek

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 11:43 AM

Increasing traffic lanes for bikes, cars or pedestrians just leads to them being used and that defeats the purpose. It's called induced demand and it's really bad or something.

#3018 Brantastic

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 06:39 PM

But the cyclist do not have to use the separated bike lanes, and they don't like the two way lanes, so they ride in the vehicle lanes.

Not sure what you mean by cyclists not liking the two-way lanes. I love them, use them several times a week and see many others using them. I don't think I've ever seen someone cycling on the road since they've been built with the exception of what nerka mentioned.



#3019 DustMagnet

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 09:09 AM

Increasing traffic lanes for bikes, cars or pedestrians just leads to them being used and that defeats the purpose. It's called induced demand and it's really bad or something.

Induced demand is bad for single/few-user motor vehicles, but is desirable for mass transit, cycling and pedestrians.  The purpose as I understand it is to achieve a balance, at which point no mode of transport needs to be promoted or favoured over the other.

 

Affirmative action is hard to sell because it negatively affects the individual.


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#3020 Citified.ca

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 09:12 AM

New-TCH-traffic-light-at-Carey-Road-to-allow-highway-access-for-BC-Transit-buses.jpg

An aerial depicting the location of the soon-to-be-activated bus-only traffic light along the Trans Canada Highway at Carey Road and upcoming dual turn lanes at Saanich Road for motorists destined towards Uptown Shopping Centre and Saanich's core.

New TCH traffic light at Carey Road to allow highway access for BC Transit buses
https://victoria.cit...-transit-buses/


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