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Ukrainian and now Venezuelan Crisis'


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#21 AllseeingEye

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:50 PM

And here you go, things are clearly going to heat up and get more interesting: http://www.cnn.com/2...tics/index.html.

 

Killing the telecom links, internet and other mass communications media capabilities would certainly be things I would be considering if I wanted to stomp on my neighbor.



#22 Mike K.

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:59 PM

Russia has an ice-free port on the Baltic Sea in Kaliningrad along the northeastern Polish border between Poland and Lithuania. Despite the actual Russian border starting 400 kilometers to the east, their military is literally on the doorstep of Poland and 200 kilometers from the German border.

 

Russia obviously feels that they have to show a strong military presence in the Crimean to dissuade the Ukrainian military from seizing their Crimean arsenal and ports. Ukraine has essentially been invaded by a foreign nation but then you can understand why the Russians are doing what they are doing. No doubt if Germany were going through what the Ukraine is going through American troops would be flown in to protect American bases in Germany in much the same fashion the Russians arrived in the Crimean.


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#23 rjag

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:02 PM

Eerily similar to Tom Clancys last book. I swear Clancy was from the future in this situation!

#24 spanky123

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:05 PM

What worries me is that we have mid term elections coming up in the US and the early stages of any conflict generally strongly favour the incumbent Government. Is the US willing to force a war with Russia for short term political gain?

#25 AllseeingEye

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:10 PM

Russia has an ice-free port on the Baltic Sea in Kaliningrad along the northeastern Polish border between Poland and Lithuania. Despite the actual Russian border starting 400 kilometers to the east, their military is literally on the doorstep of Poland and 200 kilometers from the German border.

 

Russia obviously feels that they have to show a strong military presence in the Crimean to dissuade the Ukrainian military from seizing their Crimean arsenal and ports. Ukraine has essentially been invaded by a foreign nation but then you can understand why the Russians are doing what they are doing. No doubt if Germany were going through what the Ukraine is going through American troops would be flown in to protect American bases in Germany in much the same fashion the Russians arrived in the Crimean.

Sorry Mike to clarify by ice free port I was referring to a military i.e. naval port. The Baltic is not a naval base at least not a major strategic base in the sense Sevastopol is. They may well have some patrol boats and minor naval assets in the Baltic however Sevasotpol is home port to a true blue water fleet.



#26 AllseeingEye

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:11 PM

And now we have this latest development: http://www.cnn.com/2...tics/index.html



#27 spanky123

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:34 PM

And now we have this latest development: http://www.cnn.com/2...tics/index.html


I am certain the CNN and the other news networks are over the top with excitement.

#28 AllseeingEye

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:57 PM

I am certain the CNN and the other news networks are over the top with excitement.

I am quite sure of that; I see both the Right (FOX) and the Comrades at the CBC both have this story prominently posted on their websites.

 

I certainly recall during the Gulf War one memorable CNN live story - you know the type, correspondent riding with the troops, sitting literally on the tank - where the CNN reporter was on the front line literally minutes before the US and British armour went over the Kuwait border. He was practically having an orgasm "You can FEEL the tension.....WAR could break out ANY SECOND!!!!!!" Like it was a video game.....



#29 LJ

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:35 PM

I think the only viable solution to this is to let the Crimea area split off and rejoin Russia, otherwise there is going to be another civil war in a world that doesn't need one.

 

The US will not step in with boots on the ground that is for sure. They will try diplomacy first and then maybe sanctions against Russia. The G8 is supposed to be in Sochi this summer, that will be a first indication of what might happen if nobody shows up.


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#30 spanky123

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:01 AM

I think the only viable solution to this is to let the Crimea area split off and rejoin Russia, otherwise there is going to be another civil war in a world that doesn't need one.

 

The US will not step in with boots on the ground that is for sure. They will try diplomacy first and then maybe sanctions against Russia. The G8 is supposed to be in Sochi this summer, that will be a first indication of what might happen if nobody shows up.

 

Despite Harper and Obama's efforts to dehumanize Putin and vilify the Russians over the past year, the Olympics gave people a much more balanced view. I don't think that short of having Americans attacked and killed, there is any support for boots on the ground in the Ukraine. So I agree on that point.

 

I have no doubt that the US and Canada will use the opportunity to fund and supply opposition forces in the Ukraine as a stake in a proxy war. History over the past 30 years as shown us that the approach always winds up really badly for the "opposition" and usually blows back on the US. 



#31 spanky123

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:22 AM

Surprised I didn't see this on CNN, but the BBC is reporting on a leaked phone call between the US Ambassador to the Ukraine and the US State department plotting the replacement of the Ukrainian Government.

 

http://www.bbc.com/n...europe-26079957



#32 Mike K.

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:50 AM

Dehumanize Putin? You consider objecting to another regime's human rights violations and the sanctioning of repressive laws by a dictator dehumanizing?

Your average Russian is now too afraid to speak out against the Czar and many are trembling at the thought of his power hungry agenda. And don't for a second think Putin's lip regarding Syria had to do with anything other than concern for western powers inching closer to his border and infiltrating the Crimean region.

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#33 Mike K.

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:59 AM

Sorry Mike to clarify by ice free port I was referring to a military i.e. naval port. The Baltic is not a naval base at least not a major strategic base in the sense Sevastopol is. They may well have some patrol boats and minor naval assets in the Baltic however Sevasotpol is home port to a true blue water fleet.

Kaliningrad has a major naval presence with nearly 100 combat vessels. Realistically speaking their arsenal there is many, many, many times more powerful than Canada's entire east coast and west cost fleets.

Back during the Cold War it also contained the highest concentration of Russian artillery and armoured units and to this day remains as a major army base.

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#34 spanky123

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:26 AM

Dehumanize Putin? You consider objecting to another regime's human rights violations and the sanctioning of repressive laws by a dictator dehumanizing?

Your average Russian is now too afraid to speak out against the Czar and many are trembling at the thought of his power hungry agenda. And don't for a second think Putin's lip regarding Syria had to do with anything other than concern for western powers inching closer to his border and infiltrating the Crimean region.

 

I think that if you were to ask people living in the countries we "liberated" over the past decade whether they prefer "democracy" or oppression they would pick oppression 99% of the time. The 1% exception being the chosen few who are "liberating" the treasuries of their countries.


Edited by spanky123, 01 March 2014 - 08:26 AM.


#35 Mike K.

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:42 AM

If you asked Russians if they would prefer to live in America or Russia they would say America 99% of the time.

American imperialism is one thing, but I'm wondering how we are dehumanizing Putin who in virtually every respect is a ruthless dictator who uses aggression, oppression and jail terms for opponents to get his way?

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#36 spanky123

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:46 PM

If you asked Russians if they would prefer to live in America or Russia they would say America 99% of the time.

American imperialism is one thing, but I'm wondering how we are dehumanizing Putin who in virtually every respect is a ruthless dictator who uses aggression, oppression and jail terms for opponents to get his way?

 

You obviously don't know too many Russians. Sounds like the quote from Full Metal Jacket "inside every gook is an American trying to get out".



#37 LJ

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:56 PM

Watch this 60 minutes episode on Bill Browder trying to do business in Russia..

 

http://www.cbsnews.c...cate-blanchett/


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#38 Mike K.

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:17 AM

You obviously don't know too many Russians. Sounds like the quote from Full Metal Jacket "inside every gook is an American trying to get out".

Well, we do know the Russian government has begun detaining anti-war protesters in Moscow. Unlike people in any other country of the world, Russians must love being detained for exercising their so-called freedom of speech.

Ukrainians must also be rejoicing that Russia has occupied their country. And now the Ukrainian military is mobilising to deliver a personal message to their Russian counterparts and tell them that they are sorry Putin has been dehumanized by western media and that they're happy Russia is there to keep the imperialist west from mobilizing troops and occupying... oh, wait...

The Russians I do know say they're scared for their family members in Russia, knowing that the country has potentially lost 20 years of diplomatic progress and that this alienate the population and further strengthen Putin while curbing personal freedoms and eroding the economic strength of the country.

I'm curious though, for those of you with Russia Today, what's the coverage like? Of course on a good day RT is as crazy a propaganda machine as FOX, but most people don't realize how twisted and biased their coverage is of American events ...in America. But now they must be having a field day and I can't imagine most with a hint of understanding of what's really happening could stand to stomach their "coverage."

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#39 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:21 AM

Let me put this to you.  Chaos breaks out in Ottawa, with protests including burning barricades and Molotov cocktails for two weeks on Parliament Hill, and then a sudden departure of Harper to Washington DC.

 

Parliament appoints someone we have never heard of, from the NDP as prime minister, but in all honesty we don't know who's running the country and calling the shots.  Ottawa is in complete disarray, and we are 5000km away.

 

And then US troops politely cross our border and move to secure Port Vancouver, YVR, YYJ and CFB Esquimalt, in the name of keeping our western economy going, products and people moving and helping support their military ally while things in Ottawa are in rough shape.  

 

Obama comes on TV and says it's just temporary to help us in our time of need.

 

Would we object all too strongly?


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#40 Mike K.

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:24 AM

VHF, if that is how you understand this conflict has played out you'll need to study current events with a little more scrutiny.

But lets focus on the actual events taking place and not get muddled up in a side debate about some what-if scenario.

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