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Ukrainian and now Venezuelan Crisis'


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#41 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:28 AM

VHF, if that is how you understand this conflict has played out you'll need to study current events with a little more scrutiny.

But lets focus on the actual events taking place and not get muddled up in a side debate about some what-if scenario.

 

I understand that most of the Crimean people are big Russia fans, rightly or wrongly.  And they mostly welcome the troops in their area now.  I think we'd do the same with US troops here, and Obama reassuring us.  After all, something like 70% of Canadians are Obama fans.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#42 Mike K.

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:36 AM

Russians living in Crimea should be mobilizing and leaving the country if they feel threatened, not calling for their army to occupy a foreign state.

This is about as much about "people" as are Putin's human rights policies back home. Putin is using "people" as an excuse to annex the Crimean. He couldn't have asked for a more perfectly presented opportunity to finally make a move on this area. Next up will be liberating his "people" from other former eastern block countries until all of his "people" who chose to live in a foreign country and away from Russian influence are once again under Russia's control. Everybody wins! (yeah, that's sarcasm) :)

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#43 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 08:50 AM

Russians living in Crimea should be mobilizing and leaving the country if they feel threatened, not calling for their army to occupy a foreign state.

This is about as much about "people" as are Putin's human rights policies back home. Putin is using "people" as an excuse to annex the Crimean. He couldn't have asked for a more perfectly presented opportunity to finally make a move on this area. Next up will be liberating his "people" from other former eastern block countries until all of his "people" who chose to live in a foreign country and away from Russian influence are once again under Russia's control. Everybody wins! (yeah, that's sarcasm) :)

 

I understand that in some type of emergency election/appointment, the Crimean parliament (Crimea is some type of antonymous part of the Ukraine, it has its own government unlike any other in the rest of Ukraine)  appointed a new president or whatever they call it, a few days ago.   Nobody openly protested in Crimea.  Then this new president asked for Russian help in the form of security forces.  That's why no shots are being fired as the Russians arrive.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#44 Mike K.

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:03 AM

My understanding is Kiev has opted to restrain itself and avoid an immediate start to war as per the requests of western nations, but they are now mobilizing their army and no doubt will make a move for the Crimean or at least try to keep the Russian military from moving north.

What Russia has done contravenes an agreement it has with Kiev and obviously contravenes UN regulations but I don't know specifics regarding the new Crimean government.

Reports are now coming in that many Russians who were at pro-Putin rallies yesterday were forced to go by their employers.

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#45 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:06 AM

My understanding is Kiev has opted to restrain itself and avoid an immediate start to war as per the requests of western nations, but they are now mobilizing their army and no doubt will make a move for the Crimean.

 

And as/if they do they will find that those troops that arrive will not have much local support.  It would be like Harper ordering troops into Quebec after they vote 75% to leave Canada.  The troops arriving would not be welcome.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#46 Mike K.

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:12 AM

Yeah this could get interesting, but the Crimean is still Ukrainian and Kiev has an obligation to protect its sovereignty.

If Russians living in Crimea don't want to be governed by Ukraine, well... tough.

Putin of course couldn't be happier. He has a civil war in the making in Ukraine from which he'll annex territories or gain control of Crimea without firing a bullet. Either way, so far, this has played out in his favour.

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#47 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:15 AM

Yeah this could get interesting, but the Crimean is still Ukrainian and Kiev has an obligation to protect its sovereignty.

If Russians living in Crimea don't want to be governed by Ukraine, well... tough.

 

Well then is it OK then that Russia asserted/asserts its power over Chechnya, like you want Ukraine to do with Crimea?   "Tough" for those that want to leave Cechnya, it's Russia.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#48 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:18 AM

Putin of course couldn't be happier. He has a civil war in the making in Ukraine from which he'll annex territories or gain control of Crimea without firing a bullet. Either way, so far, this has played out in his favour.

 

I agree.  Except I'm not so sure there will be any civil war.  Crimea will just become more antonymous, and very closely allied with Russia.  Maybe become a stand-alone country, with little bloodshed required.  


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#49 Mike K.

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:21 AM

Well then is it OK then that Russia asserted/asserts its power over Chechnya, like you want Ukraine to do with Crimea? "Tough" for those that want to leave Cechnya, it's Russia.


I don't think I said want I want Kiev to do anything.

Chechnya and Crimea are two completely different situations.

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#50 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:27 AM

I don't think I said want I want Kiev to do anything.

 

...but the Crimean is still Ukrainian and Kiev has an obligation to protect its sovereignty.

 

 

That's what you said.  And I could say the same about Russia wrt Chechnya.  Chechnya is still Russian and Moscow has an obligation to protect its sovereignty.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#51 Mike K.

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:37 AM

I'm stating a fact and not imposing my own beliefs.

Again, Chechnya and Crimea are two vastly different situations but you're right, Ukraine's position with Crimea is not unlike Russia's with Chechnya, but when was the last time Ukraine sent in troops to quash separatists in Crimea?

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#52 spanky123

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:29 PM

Putin is using "people" as an excuse to annex the Crimean. He couldn't have asked for a more perfectly presented opportunity to finally make a move on this area. Next up will be liberating his "people" from other former eastern block countries until all of his "people" who chose to live in a foreign country and away from Russian influence are once again under Russia's control. Everybody wins! (yeah, that's sarcasm) :)

 

I think that it is at least a better excuse than Canada and the US used to invade Iraq and overthrow the Governments of Libya and Egypt. This is called blowback.



#53 http

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:08 PM

I don't think I said want I want Kiev to do anything.

Chechnya and Crimea are two completely different situations.

Imagine for a moment that Russia has (i) a long term plan, and (ii) a very consistent foreign policy for the past century.


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#54 LJ

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:37 PM

.  After all, something like 70% of Canadians are Obama fans.

Really? They may have preferred Obama over the republican candidates but that doesn't make them fans, especially after seeing what he hasn't done with his time in office.

 

I wonder what his support level is in Alberta?


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#55 spanky123

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:44 AM

Really? They may have preferred Obama over the republican candidates but that doesn't make them fans, especially after seeing what he hasn't done with his time in office.

 

I wonder what his support level is in Alberta?

 

Or now that Obama is having his team support the Liberals and Trudeau. Have to say that is the first time I can recall where the US has openly endorsed and funded/supported a candidate in our Federal election.



#56 LJ

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 07:42 PM

Or now that Obama is having his team support the Liberals and Trudeau. Have to say that is the first time I can recall where the US has openly endorsed and funded/supported a candidate in our Federal election.

Where has he done that? I hadn't heard anything about it.


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#57 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:20 AM

So the Crimean government has voted 78-0 to have a public referendum on March 16th to decide on joining Russia.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#58 spanky123

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:26 AM

Or now that Obama is having his team support the Liberals and Trudeau. Have to say that is the first time I can recall where the US has openly endorsed and funded/supported a candidate in our Federal election.

Here is the initial article.

 

http://www.thestar.c...in_winning.html

 

During the recent leadership convention the CBC reported that 4 of Obama's key election staff were on hand.



#59 spanky123

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:27 AM

So the Crimean government has voted 78-0 to have a public referendum on March 16th to decide on joining Russia.

 

Democracy in action. Too bad that the US and Canada only support democratic outcomes that they like. I wonder how Harper is going to spin that the folks in Crimea have no right to have a referendum but the folks in Quebec do.



#60 Mike K.

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:58 AM

The folks in Quebec can hold a referendum every month but they won't make an iota of difference unless the rest of Canada chooses to allow Quebec to split.

In Ukraine it is unconstitutional for Crimeans to vote to split from Ukraine and act on the results.

This is not democracy in action any more than vote tampering or the decision of a president to suddenly switch course and support one backer over another without his population's blessing.

The entire Ukrainian population should vote on the Crimean issue and they should vote on the EU/Russia issue. Otherwise what we have in Ukraine is a gong show masquerading as democracy.

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