1731 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

I rent condos on vacation because a member of the family has celiac disease. There's usually only a handful of places you can actually eat if you have celiac unless I guess you stay in a 5 star resort. There's a lot of people in similar situations where they have some kind of dietary reason they can't eat out every meal. Anyway glad Victoria is shutting it's doors to that kind of scum so hoteliers can get higher rates.

 

And to think that we actually pay City staff huge salaries to ignore residents and just make the rules on their own. In my opinion this has nothing to do with trying to come up with anything resembling housing affordability, levelling the playing field or any other excuse that council comes up with. A grade 9 high school student could have done basic research and found that dozens of other cities have addressed concerns and come up with fair taxation and reporting (that Airbnb handles) to make sure that a region's needs are properly met. No extra burden on City staff and potentially millions in revenue that the City could then use to fund it's various programs or even (wait for it) reduce tax increases. 

 

The only purpose here, again in my opinion, is to try and come up with rules that are so onerous that nobody can warrant the effort. The one exception of course being the permitting of up to 2 bedrooms in a house so that the Mayor's landlord can restart her own Airbnb.

Edited by spanky123, 26 November 2017 - 10:56 AM.

[VicHockeyFan]

The only purpose here, again in my opinion, is to try and come up with rules that are so onerous that nobody can warrant the effort. The one exception of course being the permitting of up to 2 bedrooms in a house so that the Mayor's landlord can restart her own Airbnb.

 

Those are self-contained units, they will not be able to be used as Air BnB.

[rjag]

Those are self-contained units, they will not be able to be used as Air BnB.

 

Also is it in the 'airbnb zone' or not? 

[spanky123]

Those are self-contained units, they will not be able to be used as Air BnB.

 

If that is the case then clearly I was wrong. Would you not just need an internal door between the units (even if it was blocked/locked) to conform to the bylaw? 

[VicHockeyFan]

Who knows, right...

 

 

As of September 21, 2017 Short Term Rentals are currently only permitted in Victoria in:

 

up to two bedrooms within a single family dwelling in Schedule D – Home Occupations (this use means up to two bedrooms within an occupied dwelling unit with shared kitchen and living space and does not include self-contained suites such as secondary suites or garden suites)

 

 

 

That's what it says, in short.

 

http://www.victoria....rm-rentals.html

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 26 November 2017 - 12:59 PM.

[tjv]

While its true that AirBnB people aren't paying their share of property taxes correctly, its likely they aren't reporting the income either.  The same is also likely true of people with basement suites who rent on a month by month basis who aren't paying correct property taxes and also likely not reporting income to the CRA.  if the City wants to go after AirBnB then they should also go after people with basement suites too

 

Edited by tjv, 26 November 2017 - 02:35 PM.

[Rob Randall]

I am told that up to 30 percent of local vacation rentals are in fact not vacationers--they are house hunters, relocating executives, temporary contractors etc.

[DavidL]

The property tax argument gets a little tiresome when you consider that Bed and Breakfasts with less than 4 units are taxed at a residential rate with no issue from any of our elected representatives, and have been so for many years.  A typical short term rental unit will not have 4 bedrooms, so it would be reasonable to conclude that a residential taxation rate would not be unfair.  GST, PST and MRDT rules all currently mirror B&B rules and yet not once have I heard Tourism Victoria or others complain about the lack of level playing field between hotels and B&Bs.

 

Rob is correct in the sense that many users of short term rentals are not, in fact, on vacation.  That's why we're trying to change the standard reference to "short term rentals" instead of "short term vacation rentals".  There are a raft of reasons why people use them, and it's not just about cost.  Hospital stays and visits, treatments, family events, home renovations, house hunting, locums, educational stays, training camps, theater runs, film and television productions, court cases, convalescence and so on.  

 

There are several problems with the proposed regulations but I'll put this one out there.  Enforcement of the rules is to be budgeted at $512,000 per year, to be carried out by a third party contractor yet to be named.  Current bylaw enforcement services, in total, are budgeted at $1.35 million.  So roughly a 35% increase in the bylaw enforcement budget to deal with one specific issue on which the city has very little data.  Let me ask you if you think that such an increase in bylaw enforcement should be directed at the scourge of short term rentals in Victoria, or whether, if they're going to raise the budget in such a manner, you can think of any other areas of bylaw enforcement in the city that might be a little more pressing?

[Mike K.]

Do we know if Mayor Helps and Councillor Lucas abstained from voting on the AirBnB issue?

[DavidL]

Yes they did not vote on the short term rental issue, in fact they recused themselves from the entire discussion for the past year and a half.

Edited by DavidL, 27 November 2017 - 07:30 AM.

[spanky123]

The property tax argument gets a little tiresome when you consider that Bed and Breakfasts with less than 4 units are taxed at a residential rate with no issue from any of our elected representatives, and have been so for many years.  A typical short term rental unit will not have 4 bedrooms, so it would be reasonable to conclude that a residential taxation rate would not be unfair.  GST, PST and MRDT rules all currently mirror B&B rules and yet not once have I heard Tourism Victoria or others complain about the lack of level playing field between hotels and B&Bs.

 

Rob is correct in the sense that many users of short term rentals are not, in fact, on vacation.  That's why we're trying to change the standard reference to "short term rentals" instead of "short term vacation rentals".  There are a raft of reasons why people use them, and it's not just about cost.  Hospital stays and visits, treatments, family events, home renovations, house hunting, locums, educational stays, training camps, theater runs, film and television productions, court cases, convalescence and so on.  

 

There are several problems with the proposed regulations but I'll put this one out there.  Enforcement of the rules is to be budgeted at $512,000 per year, to be carried out by a third party contractor yet to be named.  Current bylaw enforcement services, in total, are budgeted at $1.35 million.  So roughly a 35% increase in the bylaw enforcement budget to deal with one specific issue on which the city has very little data.  Let me ask you if you think that such an increase in bylaw enforcement should be directed at the scourge of short term rentals in Victoria, or whether, if they're going to raise the budget in such a manner, you can think of any other areas of bylaw enforcement in the city that might be a little more pressing?

 

Airbnb will help enforce the rules for free (ie they will provide a list of active renters to the City), they will collect and remit taxes and they will provide data to the CRA on who is generating revenue. Seems to me like the $500K a year job would be a pretty easy one. Where do I apply?

[Mike K.]

What I'd like to know is who the third party will be that will work on behalf of the City investigating who is and who is not operating an AirBnB.

[VicHockeyFan]

Why is it a 3rd party?  I see the $512,000 includes hiring 3 new City staff too.

[lanforod]

Airbnb will help enforce the rules for free (ie they will provide a list of active renters to the City), they will collect and remit taxes and they will provide data to the CRA on who is generating revenue. Seems to me like the $500K a year job would be a pretty easy one. Where do I apply?

 

You'll have a good time chasing down the ones posted on other sites like UsedVic or Craigslist.

[spanky123]

You'll have a good time chasing down the ones posted on other sites like UsedVic or Craigslist.

 

That is the best part, you don't need to chase down anyone, AirBnB will provide a report and who is listing the properties, how often they are rented and if the listings are meeting the guidelines. Other than sending the invoice out for the fine, I don't know what the $500K a year buys.

[VicHockeyFan]

That is the best part, you don't need to chase down anyone, AirBnB will provide a report and who is listing the properties, how often they are rented and if the listings are meeting the guidelines. Other than sending the invoice out for the fine, I don't know what the $500K a year buys.

 

Well, presumably if the City only relied on Air BnB info, listings will migrate to other websites like VRBO, FlipKey, Craigslist etc.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 27 November 2017 - 08:52 AM.

[DavidL]

Air bnb is only one of many short term rental platforms. They didn't invent the business, don't represent the business and to many owners they have been the root cause of much of the conflict in the business with their approach to municipal authorities in jurisdictions across North America. There are lots of owners who do not use air bnb, myself included.

"Chasing down" listings across multiple platforms doesn't pose that much of a logistical problem. The third party is as yet unnamed.

Again, if we're going to increase city resources so much is this the issue that we really need to be focusing on in the city at this time? Remember last year when Vic PD had to go hat in hand to council and beg for 200k to continue to fund police assistance to social workers working in unsafe conditions and were very nearly turned away?

[VicHockeyFan]

Santa Monica, 2015:

 

 

The Los Angeles suburb of Santa Monica has instituted the nation’s toughest regulations on short-term rentals like Airbnb. Starting today, hosts will have to live on the property during the renter's stay, register for a business license and collect the city’s 14 percent occupancy tax.

 

The city estimates that this will shut down about 1,400 of the 1,700 short-term rental listings - about 80 percent - in this upscale beach town and major tourist destination, population about 92,500.

 

Salvador Valles, the city’s Assistant Director of Planning and Community Development, cites two main reasons for this move:

 

The overall increase in housing prices in the city and region.

Companies taking over multiple units and subleasing them as short-term vacation rentals, decreasing the housing supply and putting even more pressure on housing prices.

 

Airbnb rentals may fall off drastically in Santa Monica. Neighboring L.A. (pictured) is also contemplating short-term rental restrictions. (AP Photo/Damian Dovarganes)

 

More than just driving up rents, Valles says, the decrease in owner- and long term renter-occupancy has the potential to change the character of the city. “It becomes more of a transient community than a neighborhood where people are invested in the community.”

 

“Our city council thought that it was important to intervene and return rentals to the housing market,” he says. Violators will face a $500 fine.

 

 

 

https://www.forbes.c...a/#3d1b2562169a

 

Santa Monica, 2017:

 

Cole, a veteran city manager who once personally defaced a billboard he found vulgar while working for the city of Azusa, California, admits that inclusionary zoning alone won’t solve the housing crisis. Even if it doesn’t suppress development, Santa Monica’s new standard will only produce 50 to 100 more affordable units downtown than would have been produced under the current inclusionary targets with development agreements currently in place, projects in the pipeline, and new housing that’s projected in the city’s Environmental Impact Report (EIR), he says. That means a lot to those 50 to 100 families, he says, but not to the many thousands of other Angelenos looking for an affordable place to live.

 

 

https://nextcity.org...arking-minimums

 

Funny eh, the toughest Air BnB regulations in the entire country did not solve the "housing crisis" there.

[rjag]

Classic 'progressive' approach, hire more bureaucrats and invent work for them. A solution in search of a problem that the Hotel Industry and Tourism Vic handed to Council on a platter. 

 

I wonder how much funding of certain City vanity projects came from the Hotel association this last 2 years?  

[VicHockeyFan]

The problem is pretty simple to see.  Tourism Victoria gets the vast majority of their dollars from the hotel tax.  They get next to nothing from the cruise passengers, from day-trippers and from STVR operators.

 

How to get more money?  Increase traditional hotel occupancy and average room rates.  That's the way.

 

How to get the City onboard?  Give the City money. 

 

 

The increase in the tax was requested last year by Tourism Victoria, its main beneficiary, as the city moves to form a new relationship with the tourism organization.

 

That relationship is based on Tourism Victoria taking the lead on the sales and marketing of the Victoria Conference Centre, and the tourism industry making a $1-million contribution toward the David Foster Harbour Pathway, along with voluntarily agreeing to the tax increase.

 

The hope is to have the increased tax in place by Jan. 1.

 

Helps called the changes being negotiated between Tourism Victoria and the city exciting, with the end goal of setting the tourism industry on more solid ground.

 

“It’s a very positive and exciting negotiation between Tourism Victoria and the city to kind of modernize the city’s relationship with our tourism industry association,” she said. “I’m looking forward to it because we’ve been working so hard on it.”

 

There has been a two per cent hotel tax in Victoria since 1998. Most of the funds collected are used by Tourism Victoria, which gets about $2.5 million annually from the hotel tax. The Victoria Conference Centre gets about $600,000, and the city uses the balance for destination marketing.

 

   

http://www.timescolo...rooms-1.2291042

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 27 November 2017 - 09:20 AM.