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Temporary Foreign Workers in Victoria


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#21 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:55 AM

Friends who operate eateries and cafes say they get overwhelmed with resumes when they post a job opening on Craigslist, but I guess everyone's mileage varies.

What I'm surprised with is Starbucks manages to get by with only local workers but Tim Horton's can have an entire frontline staff comprised of non locals. It just seems like many operators are turning away locals and sticking to workers they bring in and who are literally bonded to their business for a two year period. This not only gives the operator power (take that shift or I'll send you back!) but also solves the hassle of interviewing locals and having to set up work schedules that match their schedule restrictions. Foreign workers have no kids to pick up from school, no spouse to spend time with, no second job and no local responsibilities, etc. They come to work and work is all they do.

 

My experience is that jobs with tips (bartending, serving in LPs) get lots of response to ads.  No tips, like kitchen jobs or hosting, not so much.   McDonald's and Tim Horton's are kinda the worst jobs in the industry.  Lowest wages, zero chance for tips, pretty busy workplace, uniforms that are hardly flattering on either sex, and certainly not "coolness" among your peers...  A 17-year-old hostess at Earl's is gonna get way more cred with her peers than a McDonalds worker, even though she might make the same money.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#22 Matt R.

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:03 AM

Flooded with resumes and finding a suitable employee who will show up for the interview on time and be able to work the shifts you need filled are two very different things.

The reason it's hard to find young workers is because they often are not very committed to working and the hours and pay are usually not that great.

I will very likely work to hiring one or two staff under the LMO program next summer, depending how things go this year.

Mexicans, Aussies and Brits seem pretty keen to come and work.

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#23 Mike K.

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:15 AM

@VHF, yeah I can understand that I guess. The world has changed quite a bit over the last decade. Back when I was a teenager in the 90's working at a fast food place was neither cool nor uncool, it was just a job. Lots of kids were just happy to even have a job and nobody seemed to complain.

 

@Matt, why are we seeing so many Filipino's (who often have limited English skills)? Is it because the Aussie's and Brit's are more picky on where they work or do employers prefer Filipino's, or?


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#24 Matt R.

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:47 AM

If that's true and I don't know what the stats are, I would think that it's because there are lots of them and/or they have good agency rep on the other side that's streamlining the process.

I do think there are lots of foreign workers working under LMOs in retail and hospitality that you would never know about.

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#25 Mike K.

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:19 AM

There are 15,000 foreign workers across the country. Meanwhile 1.3 million Canadians are out of work.

 

If we got rid of this program tomorrow I have a feeling the industries "relying" on foreign workers would figure out a local solution pretty darned quick.


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#26 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:03 AM

There are 15,000 foreign workers across the country. Meanwhile 1.3 million Canadians are out of work.

 

If we got rid of this program tomorrow I have a feeling the industries "relying" on foreign workers would figure out a local solution pretty darned quick.

 

Your numbers are off a bit dude.  More than 20x off.

 

https://ccrweb.ca/en...-worker-numbers

 

You have to be careful with the "out of work" figure though.  Some will take that figure to mean that every time a job opening comes up, it is easily filled by one of those 1.3 million.  It's hardly the case.  I've had an online job ad running looking for a part-time or full-time salesperson for my company since before Christmas.  The only prerequisite is that you have to be a self-starter, and understand Facebook (185,000 people in this town do understand Facebook).  The job goes unfilled, nobody wants to even try it.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#27 Mike K.

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:16 AM

Whoa, so we're talking hundreds of thousands of foreign workers? Maybe the stat I saw referred solely to Victoria?

Anyhow, you do have to admit that the job offering you have isn't really a job so-to-speak, it's just like any other contractor sales position based 100% on performance of which there are many to choose from.

Why don't you try hiring a foreign worker instead?

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#28 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:27 AM

Whoa, so we're talking hundreds of thousands of foreign workers? 

 

McDonalds alone has almost 4,000 TFWs.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#29 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:31 AM

Anyhow, you do have to admit that the job offering you have isn't really a job so-to-speak, it's just like any other contractor sales position based 100% on performance of which there are many to choose from.

Why don't you try hiring a foreign worker instead?

 

It's a job with extremely flexible hours, that pays weekly, has no cap on commissions.  It just doesn't have a base salary, and yes, it is a contract position where you are responsible for your own very limited expenses (own phone and computer, and work space at your home, bus fare or car to visit businesses).

 

TFW program does not allow for contractors.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#30 lanforod

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:31 AM

The problem with VHF's job isn't self starter, or Facebook experience... its sales. Sales jobs generally suck in too many ways to count.


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#31 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:35 AM

The problem with VHF's job isn't self starter, or Facebook experience... its sales. Sales jobs generally suck in too many ways to count.

 

I hear that all the time too.  I'm a salesperson, Mike and Dylan are both sales guys, Marko is a sales guy.  Sparky is a sales guy.  1200 other Realtors in town are sales people.  Not many of them go back to hourly-salary jobs.  No doubt there are some, even many lousy sales jobs, but most of the most high-paying jobs are in sales.  Show me a guy in this town making more than $125k a year, and he is either in upper-management somewhere, or in sales (or some super smart tech geek).  Without sales, the economy stops.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#32 G-Man

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:58 PM

IMO TFW's are a non-issue. It is a hassle to bring people in and in most cases it would be easier to hire local. These jobs are ones that are going unfilled by those out of work Canadians. 


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#33 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:03 PM

IMO TFW's are a non-issue. It is a hassle to bring people in and in most cases it would be easier to hire local. These jobs are ones that are going unfilled by those out of work Canadians. 

 

But the flip side of this coin is, if there were no TFWs available, they were simply not allowed, and the ban was enforced, the jobs WOULD get filled by Canadians, but at higher wages (and thus higher prices for consumers using those outlets).  I don't think you can argue this statement.


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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#34 Nparker

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:21 PM

But the flip side of this coin is, if there were no TFWs available, they were simply not allowed, and the ban was enforced, the jobs WOULD get filled by Canadians, but at higher wages (and thus higher prices for consumers using those outlets).  I don't think you can argue this statement.

So in your ideal world all Canadian jobs would be filled by lower-paid foreign workers in order to keep consumer prices low? 



#35 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:27 PM

So in your ideal world all Canadian jobs would be filled by lower-paid foreign workers in order to keep consumer prices low? 

 

Not at all.  I'm countering his claim that these are "jobs that Canadians refuse to take".  Canadians would refuse to take jobs pumping septic tanks if it paid minimum wage, that's a shi**y job.  But that job pays well, or at least well enough that there is no shortage of workers to do it.  But please do understand that pumping your septic tanks costs more now than it would if your septic tank was full of only lemonade.


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<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#36 G-Man

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:38 PM

VHF I think we are in agreement, no need to counter my claim  :wave:


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#37 Mike K.

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:11 PM

As VHF pointed out, there are 300,000 TFW's in Canada while 1.3 million Canadians are not currently employed but most of whom should be employed. It's also no secret the many TFW's do not spend money in Canada, they send the money they earn back to their home country where it is spent by their families or accumulates in savings accounts and awaits their return.

 

By not hiring Canadians we're actually losing out on two fronts.


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#38 G-Man

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:14 PM

I disagree. I would actually be in favour of scrapping the TFW program and just allowing a far higher number of immigrants with less qualifications so that we have people that want to become Canadians taking those jobs even if they are not experts in cardiac surgery or quantum physics.


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#39 Mike K.

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:16 PM

What do you disagree with?

 

I'm confused.


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#40 jonny

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:32 PM

By not hiring Canadians we're actually losing out on two fronts.

 

This is a very narrow view of macroeconomics and you are advocating a very protectionist policy. We are operating in a global economy where labor and capital mobility is something to be celebrated.

 

TFWs can be useful. I think we need to understand the drivers for why this program has grown. Is it because there are no local people who want to work at McDonalds for minimum wage? Is it because there is a skills mismatch; i.e. people with Masters Degrees don't want to work in fast food? Is it because the system is being abused and employers find this program to be an easy way to get cheap labor?

 

I know a farmer on the peninsula who hires TFWs because they cannot find local labor who wants to harvest crops. The TFWs are cheap, hard working and reliable.



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