192 replies to this topic

[lanforod]

I worked at a greenhouse on the mainland when I was a teenager until I was about half way through University. They transitioned from using Surrey based East Indian workers (mostly ladies age 18-50) to all Mexican men, brought up from Mexico on 1 to 2 year contracts.

The setup got busy enough the work was no longer seasonal, but full-time, year round with peak times in spring and Poinsettia season.

This operation probably had about 15 teenagers working as well, including myself, after school and weekends, full-time in summer or school days off, and advertised regularly, especially during peak times for more workers. I highly doubt they could get 100 Canadian/landed immigrant workers, especially not at the price they pay the Mexicans (~$10/hr, I think).

[HB]

 Foreign workers have no kids to pick up from school, no spouse to spend time with, no second job and no local responsibilities, etc. They come to work and work is all they do.

 

I have been watching this thread with interest and felt no need to comment until now.

 

That comment set me off and I urge you to educate yourself before posting another ignorant comment like that its offensive to me and probably to immigrants who may be reading this page.

 

My other half Mrs HB came to Canada as a foreign worker from the Philippines. Before she got here she worked in Hong Kong and in Taiwan. She is one of 7 children and was born and raised in a third world country. As a child and young woman she helped looked after her younger siblings. She washed clothes in a creek and collected firewood in the nearby forest. Here and her families life was not easy.

 

She managed to get a pretty good education then had the dream of going abroad to help better her chances of providing a better life for her and her family.

Coming to Canada is a dream of many foreigners looking for a better life.

 

 

After 5 years working in Canada she is no longer under a work permit and is a permanent resident of Canada. She followed the rules and contributed and continues to contribute to this Country.

 

She has and continues to work her ass off . She sends money home to her family on a regular basis and like other immigrants takes pride in the fact that she is able to support her family abroad.

 

For you to suggest that "immigrant workers have no kids to pick up from school, no spouse to spend time with, no second job and no local responsibilities, etc. They come to work and work is all they do" ............is disgusting.

 

I have dozens of Filipino and Filipina friends many who have husbands and wives here and yes that have children here too. They have 2 and sometimes 3 jobs and believe it or not they have responsibilities. Working at a fast food joint is "not all they do"

 

 

Foreign workers no matter where they are from are reliable and can be counted on to do their jobs with dedication unlike some Canadians.

 

If there was an award for the most ignorant false statement on this board I would elect yours.

[VicHockeyFan]

Slow down HB, he meant TFWs.  I think in that context, his comment is pretty much accurate.

[Mike K.]

HB, If you're going to purposefully misquote someone in order to get some point across, consider for a moment the ramifications of your tone and your choice of wording. Re-read what I wrote, don't just glance at it. You'll also find that the President of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business echoes that sentiment himself and acknowledges the issue at hand is one of the primary reasons why some businesses hire TFW's (note, TFW /= immigrant!).

Now, for the record, I too am an immigrant and am rather well aware of what life as a newcomer to this country is all about.

[G-Man]

I think that most TFW's take the position with the hope that it could in future translate into residency. If you consider it from their position (and they of course have kids and spouses) they are trying to make some money yes but they are doing it for their families and usually with the hope of coming here more permanently.

[VicHockeyFan]

I think that most TFW's take the position with the hope that it could in future translate into residency. If you consider it from their position (and they of course have kids and spouses) they are trying to make some money yes but they are doing it for their families and usually with the hope of coming here more permanently.

 

Hey, it sounds good to me.  Come here temporarily, prove yourself as a good worker and resident, then qualify for permanence.  Seems right.

[Mike K.]

Yup, there's no problem there whatsoever if that's how they want to go about it, it's certainly one way of gaining entry into this country and we've set it up like so for a reason.

 

The feds recently scrapped the "millionaire visa" program.

[lanforod]

The situation I was in, the mexicans hired sent most of their money home, never intend to move to Canada permanently, and essentially have none of the distractions. Makes for pretty much perfect workers for the greenhouse op, where orders can make hour fluctuate daily, with 12 hour days not being uncommon.

[LJ]

I look at the In and Out Burger restaurant chain as a prime example of a motivated work force. 

 

I don't know how they do it but I am blown away everytime I am in one. Everybody is working full speed, smiling, and producing a superior product. I would hire any one of these folks in a heartbeat. And they are not TFW's.

[VicHockeyFan]

I look at the In and Out Burger restaurant chain as a prime example of a motivated work force. 

 

Is there one in Victoria?  This sounds like front for prostitution!*  Outrageous!

 

*I'm secretly hoping it is a front for prostitution.  PM me with details if it is.  That front has been escaping me for weeks.  Nobody can read this small text, right?  Is this thing on?

[cakeman]

I'd like to see a breakdown of what jobs the TFW's are filling.. For my part, I'll say that the foreign workers (be they TFW's or Immigrants, I dont know) I encounter as cashiers in food service are always far, far more personable than the North American teenagers..

 

I also fail to see the negative significance of TFW's living as a group in apartments or what-have-you.. Thats exactly what the friends I have who workin the Mac in non-camp jobs do.. The wages are scaled, but so are the rents.. Friend shares a 2 bedroom mobile home with 2 other guys (1 single bed setup in living room for the 3rd guy) and he's paying 1000 a month for his single bedroom..

 

If I were making 10-12/hr and was simply here to make money (as it would be in the Mac..) hell yeah, Im going to want to spend as little as possible on accomodations..

 

I think its a little silly to look at a stat like "1.2 million canadians out of work" .. and think that somehow if these 300,000 TFWs left that we'd be lining up to take them.. How many out of work Canadians are looking for 10-12/hr food service work.. Go find me a logger or fisherman, out of work for the off-season, who's going to serve coffee in a Timmys drive-thru..

 

cakes..

[bluefox]

News on TFWs in Saskatchewan:

 

Sandy Nelson can't fight back the tears as she talks about losing her long-term serving job to temporary foreign workers.

 

"How can that be right, that they're not Canadians? I'm a Canadian," said Nelson, 58, who worked at Brothers Classic Grill and Pizza [previously called El Rancho] in Weyburn, Sask., for 28 years. "How can it be that I'm the one out looking for a job and they're the ones that are still employed?"

In March, she and all the staff received letters from the three brothers who own the restaurant. She says about half of the workers are Canadians. The other half are temporary foreign workers.

"Due to changes in operations we are currently discharging all of our staff," the letter says. Some of them were subsequently hired back, including two waitresses who are temporary foreign workers. But Nelson was permanently dismissed.

 

 

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/ne...rkers-1.2615157

[sebberry]

I'd like to see a breakdown of what jobs the TFW's are filling.. For my part, I'll say that the foreign workers (be they TFW's or Immigrants, I dont know) I encounter as cashiers in food service are always far, far more personable than the North American teenagers..

 

I too have noticed on multiple occasions that the foreign workers seem much more customer service oriented than the local kids.  Not every time, sometimes the locals are very pleasant to deal with but the foreign workers seem to know how to treat customers better. 

 

That being said, why is that the case?  I'm guessing the looming threat of being sent back home on the first plane if they get fired is one reason.  If you're having trouble keeping the local kids loyal and happy to work the crappy shifts, why is that?  Maybe the carrot needs to be bigger. But as long as it's easier to wave the stick around I don't see that happening. 

[Mike K.]

It has to do with maturity, experience, lots of things.

We've created an entire low wage industry that relies on cheap (usually very young) labour. Now this industry can sidestep the issues very young labour presents and hire overly qualified middle-aged workers for the same wages.

So should we sympathize with this industry and feel sorry for their situation or should we remind the operators that they are in this predicament by choice and breaking employment regulations won't be tolerated? I think the latter.

[VicHockeyFan]

So should we sympathize with this industry and feel sorry for their situation or should we remind the operators that they are in this predicament by choice and breaking employment regulations won't be tolerated? I think the latter.

 

The fast-food industry is awful competitive.  I've already mentioned that you are pretty much bound to be a "participating location" and lower your prices to whatever the national advertising campaign says they ought to be.  McDonald's currently has all drinks on for $1.   So it's tight, and probably any way you look at hiring more locals, even if it does not mean higher wages for individuals, it's going to cost you in productivity, days off etc., or just in terms of a better recruitment and retention plan (ie. better managers, working conditions, choice of shifts, flexibility).

 

The problem is when one place seems to be getting away with it (Tim Horton's) and the next place (our 3 McDonald's) get nailed.  We need a more even playing field.

[Mike K.]

The fast food industry is to blame for digging up that level playing field. They don't need anything from us other than a reminder that they are in the industry by choice and are acutely aware of the human resources issues this industry faces.

 

Importing foreign workers and lying that local labour is unavailable or unwilling to fill positions is not acceptable.

[lanforod]

Now McDonald's Canada is reviewing their TFW program: http://bc.ctvnews.ca...-hold-1.1789195

[concorde]

The fast food industry is to blame for digging up that level playing field. They don't need anything from us other than a reminder that they are in the industry by choice and are acutely aware of the human resources issues this industry faces.

 

Importing foreign workers and lying that local labour is unavailable or unwilling to fill positions is not acceptable.

To a certain extent I understand what you say, but if local teenagers or young adults don't want these jobs then I can fully support bringing in TFW.  Employers want people who show up on time, ready to work and work hard.  This is an entry level job and surprise, a low skill job.  Kids today somehow expect the world on a silver platter and their parents are giving it to them.  Guess what, employers don't and shouldn't care

 

Its not just the fast food industry that employs entry level unskilled labour and I think all industries face the same problem

[VicHockeyFan]

  Kids today somehow expect the world on a silver platter and their parents are giving it to them.  Guess what, employers don't and shouldn't care

 

 

 

 

Ya, and that can be viewed as bad ("when I was a kid I ..."), or good, "thank God I have money to give you kid, so you don't need to work while you go to Camosun College".

[sdwright.vic]

Let's get our canes out now... "Damn kids these days....