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Customs House
Uses: condo, commercial
Address: 816 Government Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 7
Condo units: (1BR, 2BR, 3BR, penthouse)
Sales status: now selling
The Customs House development encompasses a full restoration of the historic Customs House building at Wharf a... (view full profile)
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[Downtown Victoria] Customs House | Condos; commercial | 7- & 5-storeys | Built - completed in 2021


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#241 Mike K.

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 10:50 AM

I tried once on CFAX. We got into a little bit of a back-and-forth but it didn't take long for the segment to end. I tried to put her claims into context for listeners, but every response I gave she responded to with additional statements that were purposefully misleading. Stuff like:

 

"The Northern Junk proposal is no taller than the Shoal Point building, which most Victorians agree is not a detriment to the harbour"

 

Her response:

 

"I was on council at the time, and I've heard from the public that the project is a gated community and detracts from the area."

 

How do you even respond to that? Shoal Point is no more and no less a gated community than any other residential development. Furthermore, it has a commercial component on the ground floor. It's statements like that which throw the public for a loop and confuse people.

 

It's like her latest statement about this project, it is neither out of scale nor inappropriate for its location. And as we've shown it is no larger than that was built on that site 100 years ago, but the 2015 version is out of scale, out of character, it detracts from Old Town, etc., etc.


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#242 sebberry

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 11:11 AM

Her latest comment on CFAX was about a couple of tourists who asked her "what have you done to Victoria?  It looks like every other city now". 

 

Well, yes... when you work to discourage interesting architecture for the sake of not wanting to detract from old town, what do you think will happen? 

 

Now we're seeing a building that's (IMO) less interesting than the initial design, presumably to avoid "detracting from old town".  What are we going to think of it in 50 years?  Will we be back where we are now? 

 

You improve old town by improving old town, not by stifling new development. 


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#243 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 11:50 AM

 

How do you even respond to that? Shoal Point is no more and no less a gated community than any other residential development. Furthermore, it has a commercial component on the ground floor. It's statements like that which throw the public for a loop and confuse people.

 

I suppose it's gated in that you can not walk around the water side of it, like you can the Laurel Point or the condos next to the Coast.

 

EDIT:  check that, I guess you can, but it does not have a cool walkway.


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#244 gumgum

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 12:15 PM

All outside areas around Shoal Point are accessible and there is a public washroom in the building.



#245 Mike K.

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 12:27 PM

Yup. Again, it's no more gated than any other residential development, in fact much less so.

 

But folks, remember, C. Madoff and her supporters are no longer the power brokers of this region. When was the last time Ken Johnson and C. Madoff were on the "right" side of the fence? The beauty of democracy is that they can freely voice their opinions, but their point of view is now outdated, unreasonable and has been shown time and time again to not be representative of the community at-large.

 

They can keep hitting foul balls all they want, and I welcome any opportunity to sit down with either of them and discuss Victoria's built form.


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#246 aastra

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 01:49 PM

 

Ps, didn't we just prove that the heritage building that once stood on the site of the 1950's addition was the same height as the new proposal?          

 

Dude, the 1890s building was also too tall for the old town. Don't you get it? When 19th-century Victorians were creating the old town they had no idea how many mistakes they were making that would eventually need to be fixed.


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#247 aastra

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 02:01 PM

The new development is called "Customs House" but "Custom House" and "Customs House" have both been used in the past:

http://www.customsho...-April-2014.pdf



#248 aastra

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 02:29 PM

 

Her latest comment on CFAX was about a couple of tourists who asked her "what have you done to Victoria?  It looks like every other city now". 

 

Yep, Victoria's visual identity was so incredibly fragile that a few new condo buildings around town have turned the city into a carbon copy of Edmonton. Or maybe Cleveland. Or maybe both.

 

What happened to those adorable parking lots behind the Empress Hotel? We loved those parking lots. We had so many great memories there. And what happened to those adorable fuel tanks at Shoal Point? We loved those fuel tanks. We had so many great memories there. At least we still have the parking lots below Wharf Street and over at Ogden Point. But for how long? (cue scary music)

 

Seriously, the idea that some deranged tourist might miss the surface parking lots and former industrial properties... it's just so stupid.

 

And again with this contemptible message that Victoria has been ruined, that it has no remaining appeals or charms. Victoria is as sucky as [insert dump here], don't kid yourself. If you disagree then you're living in a dream world. For goodness sake, should I really wonder why there are so many "Victoria sucks" comments below every TC article? The stuff that the city's elected officials spout is hardly any better.

 

edit looking back in 2018: clarified some things


Edited by aastra, 25 September 2018 - 04:32 PM.

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#249 aastra

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 03:03 PM

Deranged Tourist: What have you done to Victoria? It looks like every other city now.

 

Victorian: You must really be upset about the replacement of the historic bascule bridge with a modern bridge.

 

Deranged Tourist: No, that's great. I'm glad about that.

 

Victorian: You must really be upset about all of the street people loitering around historic church row.

 

Deranged Tourist: No, that's great. I'm glad about that.


Edited by aastra, 13 September 2015 - 03:05 PM.


#250 aastra

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 03:27 PM

 

...it's no more gated than any other residential development, in fact much less so.

 

Shoal Point might seem like it's open to everyone when you're having a coffee in Moka House or walking around outside the building, but just try asking for the keys to one of the upstairs condos and you'll find out how exclusive it really is.



#251 Mike K.

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 03:32 PM

Impossible. There's nobody there to even answer the intercom. Everybody knows nobody lives there, all of those condos are secondary homes for the world's elite.


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#252 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 04:10 PM

That reminds me, with all his homes here, nobody even spotted John Travolta this summer?


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#253 Mike K.

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 08:55 PM

It's hard to get him at the right home at the right time.


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#254 lanforod

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 09:13 PM

That reminds me, with all his homes here, nobody even spotted John Travolta this summer?

I saw him just the other day. Enjoyed The Forger.

 

Oh, wait, you mean, live?  :1954_dancing:



#255 aastra

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 12:20 PM

Unsettling comment under the TC article:

 

 

Frankly I don't give a rat's behind what the height of the previous building was...

The FACT is that there is an approved, adopted, comprehensive contemporary zoning code for the Old Town; the proposed building was granted an exemption to it for reasons not yet made public; and granting that exemption creates a precedent that will complicate applying the Old Town zoning to future non-conforming proposals...

 

Anyone who doesn't give a rat's ass about the old town's historic built form probably also doesn't give a rat's ass about the old town. It just makes no sense to claim to love something while also wishing that the object in question was completely different. I love Venice. That's why I'm advocating new zoning to pave over the canals and replace all of the bridges with ziplines. I love Venice and I don't give a rat's ass about what Venice used to be like.

 

Seriously, we're saying historical fact is somehow less factual -- lowercase fact -- when compared against the FACT of a modern zoning regulation? A modern zoning regulation that was recently invented out of thin air, and that contradicts present and past reality? This is what we're saying?

 

It just boggles my mind how some people get stuck in this legislative muck. If we made the mistake of inventing a flawed zoning scheme that has no historical justification or otherwise makes no sense (all old town buildings must be covered in fur; all old town buildings must have no fewer than 13 windows but no more than 18; all doors in the old town must lift up instead of swing out, etc.) then the easiest way to proceed would be to correct the flawed zoning scheme. Why talk of exemptions and precedents and lack of conformity if the code is broken? FIX THE BROKEN CODE. UPPERCASE.


Edited by aastra, 14 September 2015 - 12:22 PM.

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#256 aastra

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 12:46 PM

 

“We do need to preserve heritage, as it is part of what makes Victoria special, but if we want Victoria to continue to be special into the 21st century, we need people living and working downtown.
- See more at: http://www.timescolo...h.2JZccOh5.dpuf

 

You know, unlike in the past, when nobody lived or worked downtown. All of those office buildings, warehouses, hotels, shops, and apartments were sitting empty, just for show.

 

Folks, downtown Victoria's heritage IS all about people living and working downtown. These activities do not constitute new uses! These activities do not constitute a challenge to the way that things are or the way that things used to be! Yes, people tended to be working downtown more than they were living downtown, but there were still plenty of people living downtown even during downtown Victoria's boom years, especially if we include Chinatown. For crying out loud, what do we think a downtown is for?

 

We need to continue to have people living and working downtown, and we need more people living and working downtown. I hope this is what Helps meant to say. I hope she did not mean to suggest that it was some new fad, this whole thing about people living and working downtown.

 

If she did mean to suggest that it was some new fad... holy cow. What kind of stranglehold must the revisionists have on a community when the mayor feels obliged to make such an obvious and essential point?


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#257 gumgum

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 01:11 PM

An optimist would be encouraged by Helps' quote.

#258 aastra

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 01:19 PM

I would first need to know what she meant by it. If she meant the times are a changin' and downtown Victoria in the 21st century is going to have to include something that it had never included before -- working people -- then I think I would be very discouraged.


Edited by aastra, 14 September 2015 - 01:19 PM.


#259 aastra

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 01:33 PM

I should say, in general I have felt encouraged by what she's been doing and saying. My take on her: she seems to be sympathetic to the crackpot elements but when things get real she actually regards the facts rather than just dismissing them outright.

 

Although I seem to remember I felt pretty much the same way about newly-elected Mayor Fortin, and we all know how that turned out.


Edited by aastra, 14 September 2015 - 01:34 PM.

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#260 Hotel Mike

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:57 PM

I agree with aastra. Lisa Helps has far exceeded my expectations...so far. And good comment about Fortin. I had low expectations at first, thought maybe that wasn't justified, and soon realized that it was.


Don't be so sure.:cool:

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