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North downtown /= uptown


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#21 Scaper

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 06:24 PM

China town is much larger than the small commerce section on fisgard st. It also includes the two other blocks north of it. If you even look at the street signs down warf and past capital iron they are all chinese street signs.

#22 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 06:39 PM

My 2-cents:

So I'm looking at that PDF Holden linked to, and I notice that "regular" downtown (excepting “waterfront” and “Chinatown”) is called “Old Commercial District,” which naturally enough made me wonder where “New Commercial District” is. Which in turn made me think that the area we’re talking about needs the word “New” (not “North”) in it. So I thought about “New Commercial District,” but considered that too clunky. And then I thought, “What about just calling it New Downtown District, which will soon enough be shortened to “New Downtown.”

Therefore, I suggest calling it “New Downtown.”

The area has been so unloved and neglected for so long, it’s crying out for a make-over, including a name that’s suggestive of all the possibilities: “new.” Unloved and low-rent: when truckers make deliveries here, do they stay at the Empress overnight? No, they go to Travellers Inn. Do we have nice architecture there (aside from the Bay)? No, it’s mostly hit-and-miss, quick-and-dirty purpose-built stuff -- excepting a few nuggets of historical gold (the Armoury [?], a few nice old buildings along Douglas, Government, etc. -- but you get the gist: most of it is in dire need of an overhaul and redevelopment).

By giving it a name like “New Downtown,” we’d also be signalling that this is an area where things are happening, or are going to happen. New possibilities, new architecture, new commercial ventures, new residential opportunities, new business opportunities.

Calling it "New Downtown" would also say, in effect, that we recognize that there’s an “Old Downtown,” and that no one is proposing razing it or tinkering with its nasty bits to the point of destroying “what the tourists come to Victoria for.” It might go some way to smoothing some feathers. “Old Downtown” needs its own brand of revitalization, but no one is proposing to change its character.

But “New Downtown” is where we get to play with building blocks: it’s Victoria’s new, exciting alternative downtown. (At least according to the name...!) “New Downtown” is the place for tall and slim, for some exciting architecture, for new commercial office spaces, etc. Plus, the other advantage of packaging/ branding that area in this way is that it takes the traffic pressure of “Old Downtown”: if people are commuting in from the Western Comms and Saanich, they don’t have to drive all the way to “Old Downtown” if their lovely new office is in “New Downtown.” And if we ever got LRT or better public transportation, that would tie right in, too.

Anyway, I rather like the idea: “New Downtown.” From there, you can still break it into neighbourhoods and districts (SoBa, NoFi, etc.), and you’re not limiting yourself from the outset, because “New Downtown” can start fairly small, but has opportunities to spread.
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#23 G-Man

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 07:36 PM

Hmm sort of like Nuevo Vallarta...

How about New Town or Newton for short...

I just always try to answer this question: What part of town do you live in?

I live in New Downtown.

I live in North Downtown.

I live in Chatham.

I live in Rock Bay

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#24 D.L.

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 07:56 PM

That area is downtown, just the north end of it, so it's simply north downtown.

#25 ressen

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 08:07 PM

DOWNTOWN NORTH

#26 Holden West

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 08:14 PM

Hmm...New Downtown. It might grow on me. It makes sense. Follows the European model (Old City/New City or Altstadt/Neustadt).
"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#27 D.L.

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 09:40 PM

north downtown or downtown north - what's the difference in the order of the words?

#28 zoomer

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 09:48 PM

hmm.. New Downtown, good idea, but it doesn't roll off the tongue too well, kinda clunky. How about New Town? Which might be shortened in time to Newton..which might remind people of Surrey..which might be a bad thing.

I kinda like NoFi or SoBa, but perhaps those are too trendy, out there to catch on?

What about Bay District, or BayTown? I kinda like Baytown, although I'm afraid if it became similar to the West End in Vancouver the name could be changed to a derogatory term.

Still I'll vote for Baytown.

#29 ressen

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 08:00 AM

North downtown could be any distance away from downtown where as downtown north indicates that you are still downtown but at the north end. Although I think Discovery district ( named after Discovery st.) would lend it self well to advertisements.

#30 Scaper

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 07:37 PM

Seriously this is all really stupid....it should just be called Downtown...All of it! I don't know why we need to chop Victoria's downtown into three to five areas.....such as the humbolt valley, old town, new town, north town, yada yada yada....Be all of it....DOWNTOWN!!!! :-D

#31 G-Man

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 08:24 PM

All cities do that. In New York, neighbourhoods that I assumed were massive areas are tiny. Little Italy is about the size of our Chinatown.

Downtown can have more than one neighbourhood that is why I am against Downtown north or any such name. It should be a name reflective of that area but you are there you can also say yeah I am downtown.

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#32 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 10:53 PM

Re. whether "New Downtown" would be a mouthful: yes, it probably would be. But think of the abbreviation possibilities: ODT for "Old Downtown," and NDT for "New Downtown," which naturally leads to "OD Town" and "ND Town." "OD" isn't just "overdose," it's also "old dears" (as in the Axis of Heritage crowd), and "ND town" sounds like "Endy town," which (wait for it!) is a mere 2 letters (namely T & R) away from ...Trendy Town... Ok, ok, I'll stop now... I'm just having a brain melt-down, having rented and watched the unbelievably stupid movie version of Miami Vice. Sheesh. If you want to be a cool cop, you have to have a stylish vehicle (plane, boat, car: whatever) at all costs, and you have to talk in a register so low only dogs can understand you... Ack. Then you make a movie and drive people insane.
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#33 Caramia

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 11:15 PM

I think we should let areas name themselves. Call it what the people who live and work there call it. Allow that to evolve without being planned or forced.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#34 Ms. B. Havin

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 11:26 PM

^ Sure, that's ok, but the thread started with the question around how we liked (or didn't like) the media naming the area, and whether it made sense to call it "north downtown." My feeling is that "north downtown" (and especially "uptown") doesn't cut it.

I was driving home from "up there" (north of north) today, and coming up to Caledonia & Douglas (heading south), I thought again that it would really be a misnomer to call that area "north downtown." (Again, this is my 2-cents/ opinion...!) It's downtown, even if it's "to the north," but it's very different from the bits that come into view once you hit Fisgard & Douglas. Even the terrain/ lay of the land is different. It's a different animal, which is why I wouldn't want to call it by any name that suggests more of what's already there. I really think it should have a unique new identity, and that the "old" downtown is separate from it.
When you buy a game, you buy the rules. Play happens in the space between the rules.

#35 Scaper

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 11:42 PM

I'm telling you...in ten to fifteen years Colwood will be uptown!!! :P

So, back to The North Town, New Town, debate.... If we call it new town or North Town what will we call Rock Bay when it gets developed, Newer Town or More North Town? The city will keep expanding. The Mayor earlier this year said he wants to see places as far as Hillside go to twelve stories as well as areas like Bridge street. If these areas get redeveloped over the next twenty years The Hudson will be far from North Town. It will be more like Central Town! Just call it Downtown....It's crazy!!!

#36 Holden West

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 11:51 PM

The committee has spoken!

It will be called the FRinge East of Douglas!


"Beaver, ahoy!""The bridge is like a magnet, attracting both pedestrians and over 30,000 vehicles daily who enjoy the views of Victoria's harbour. The skyline may change, but "Big Blue" as some call it, will always be there."
-City of Victoria website, 2009

#37 Scaper

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 11:55 PM

Hey that's DERF spelt Backwards!!! A sense a conpiracy!!!

#38 Caramia

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:06 AM

Rock Bay is Rock Bay. Chinatown is Chinatown. The Design District is in between the two. Each of those examples is only a couple of blocks. Maybe the problem is that the area in question is made up of too many districts to be easily lumped together, each one with a potential identity that won't be so easily submerged.

I agree, Im not a fan of "Uptown" or any label imposed from above.
Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900), The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891

#39 Scaper

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:07 AM

Well if not DownTown and not UpTown...how about MidTown? :-D

#40 G-Man

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 08:39 AM

But Chinatown is still downtown, so is Old Town.

Scaper this will still be Downtown but it will also have another name as well. Also if we let it be named by itself than there is the chance that uptown will stick and we can't have that.

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It has a whole new look!

 


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