5846 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Harper would have NEVER allowed his government to buy an American pipeline prior to a resolution on trade with the US. That decision destroyed any leverage Canada had, and now we’re returning fire with toilet paper and maple syrup duties.

The people running the show in this country are acting like bureaucrats, not businessmen/women, over what is no more than a business matter. All this talk of “bullying” and mean-spirited activity on behalf of the US is par for the course in a business relationship. You don’t think Save-Ons goes to farmers and says “we’re paying $5 per box, and you better throw in a free pound of that over there per box?” That’s exactly what they do, and we see it the next day as a case lot sale.

There’s nothing happening here that doesn’t happen between businesses, it’s just that we brought a knife to a gun fight and think we’ve actually got legitimate leverage by calling someone mean. And the Trump administration laughed all the way to Singapore after they walked out on the environmental meetings of the G7 where they know everyone talks the talk but can’t walk the walk ...and won’t admit it. Not that they have to with Trudeau getting into the oil pipeline business and all.

[jonny]

I think Trump would of been a dick to anyone. He must look strong. He must pee higher on tree. No one is allowed to question him.

 

Definitely, but I think we would be better off if we had a "conservative" on our side rather than a very left leaning liberal. (I put conservative in quotes because status and title are so very important to the Donald)

[Cats4Hire]

Harper would have NEVER allowed his government to buy an American pipeline prior to a resolution on trade with the US. That decision destroyed any leverage Canada had, and now we’re returning fire with toilet paper and maple syrup duties.

Do we have any idea why they bought it anyway (I haven't been paying attention to it at all really). It feels like really stupid timing at least since as you said, trying to negotiate with Trump (plus the G7 happening and them talking about environment when every environmental group is against this thing). The only real positive I can think of is trying to win Alberta's vote but like they'd ever vote Liberal no matter what he does.

[spanky123]

Do we have any idea why they bought it anyway (I haven't been paying attention to it at all really). It feels like really stupid timing at least since as you said, trying to negotiate with Trump (plus the G7 happening and them talking about environment when every environmental group is against this thing). The only real positive I can think of is trying to win Alberta's vote but like they'd ever vote Liberal no matter what he does.

 

I think that the pipeline was justification for increasing carbon taxes which was felt would lower overall consumption domestically. Without the pipeline the carbon tax plans fall apart.

 

The main reason for buying the pipeline was economic though in my opinion. Both Alberta and the Feds make a fortune from oil companies as they extract oil. 

[SimonH]

Love the cheese and milk from the States. Always load up on it when we are down there. They have a thing called the FDA and I'm sure they monitor whats in the dairy.

Tell me you're taking the pish ?

[tjv]

What we should do it hire someone like Jimmy Pattison as our official trade negotiator, full automomy and have him go to town

 

First order of business "lets compare net worths.....awww too bad Don, now lets get down to business"

[rjag]

Tell me you're taking the pish ?

 

Nope, theres nothing wrong with their dairy, 350 million people seem to handle it just fine. Yes approx 30% of dairy may contain Bovine Growth Hormone but there is zero evidence that it affects human health in any way. What it does do is cause mastitis in some cows and there is evidence that it reduces life expectancy of some cows.

 

No different than GMO, zero evidence on the hundreds of studies that there is any health issues with humans.

 

So yes, we buy lots of tilamook cheddar and butter

[jonny]

Do we have any idea why they bought it anyway (I haven't been paying attention to it at all really). 

 

1. Kinder Morgan had them over a barrel due to John Horgan's erratic behaviour and Alberta and Ottawa's numerous commitments to get the expansion built.  

2. The business climate for large scale energy projects in Canada and especially BC is horrible. The government red tape is unbearable. Carbon taxes make us really unappealing. Construction costs in this country are astronomical. First Nations issues are seemingly endless. The environmental extremists are allowed to run roughshod over our economy. Kinder Morgan is the latest in a long line of global energy giants to flee Canada. 

3. The expansion is a critically important piece of infrastructure. The expansion means money, tax revenue, jobs, growth, wealth, etc. for all Canadians. 

[tjv]

 

3. The expansion means money, tax revenue, jobs, growth, wealth, etc. for all Canadians. 

you do understand the economy in BC is flat out and everyone in construction is already working?  The last thing we need is more construction jobs, every construction project is months behind schedule and begging for workers.  Now we have the possibility of desparetly needed construction workers leaving town to grab higher paying pipeline jobs, employers just have to pay more money to keep them here and that cost is just passed onto consumers

 

That new house someone wants to buy could easily be another 50k as a guess in higher labour costs.  I am sure you have seen higher costs everywhere, even at Subway on that footlong is up around 10%ish recently too.

[Mike K.]

3. The expansion is a critically important piece of infrastructure. The expansion means money, tax revenue, jobs, growth, wealth, etc. for all Canadians. 

 

And it highlights the degree to which American industry is involved in Canada.

 

Canada has failed to diversify its exports and now we're seeing the result of decades of complacency and its failure. Instead of building stronger ties with Asia (like our heavily restricted oil sector has been pleading for) we oppose that trade.

[jonny]

you do understand the economy in BC is flat out and everyone in construction is already working?  The last thing we need is more construction jobs, every construction project is months behind schedule and begging for workers.  Now we have the possibility of desparetly needed construction workers leaving town to grab higher paying pipeline jobs, employers just have to pay more money to keep them here and that cost is just passed onto consumers

 

That new house someone wants to buy could easily be another 50k as a guess in higher labour costs.  I am sure you have seen higher costs everywhere, even at Subway on that footlong is up around 10%ish recently too.

 

"The last thing we need is more jobs." LOL. Good one. 

 

Then I guess we should happily employ Albertans who are not working "flat out". I assume a great deal of workers will be from Alberta and northeastern BC, since that's where huge chunks of the pipeline will lie. 

 

[I'm not so sure the skills required in complex pipeline construction directly transfer over from building a wood frame house in Surrey anyway, but I don't know.]

[tjv]

^haha and I guess you don't realize a good chunk of Alberta construction crews are already working...in BC.  I toured a project earlier last month, the entire concrete crew were from Saskatchewan.  I had an entire Calgary drywall crew willing to come to Victoria and do my project

 

people who are willing to travel are already working.  The people that aren't willing to travel are unemployed in Calgary, Edmonton, etc

 

expect to see construction projects slow hard and prices skyrocket as the pipeline starts construction.  Pipeline pays a lot more than working in any trade in Victoria

[Rob Randall]

Navarro just apologized for his dumb "special place in hell" comment about Trudeau. A rare apology from the White House.

[Rob Randall]

Trump, however, doubles down today:

 

“Justin probably didn’t know that Air Force One has about 20 televisions, and I see the television,” Mr. Trump said. “And he’s giving a news conference about how he will not be pushed around by the United States. And I say, push him around? We just shook hands. It was very friendly.”

Mr. Trump, who has since threatened to impose tariffs on Canada, added: “He learned. That’s going to cost a lot of money for the people of Canada. He learned. You can’t do that. You can’t do that.”

New York Times

 

[jonny]

Canadian supply management of dairy is beyond ridiculous. We basically operate as a commie command economy where the dairy cartel gets to set production quotas to keep prices artificially high in this one tiny sector for Quebecois political reasons. It's really quite insane. We don't do that for wheat, oats, meat, seafood, carrots, beans or anything else. Just dairy. What a bizarre oddity. 

 

You know, prior to all this, it would have been really easy for Canada to just say, you know what, we're willing to budge on supply management and dairy tariffs. Trudeau would have taken a hit from some Quebec dairy conglomerates, but it would have blown over. We could have shown that we're pro trade are willing to compromise, etc. etc.

 

Now we have the leader of the free world on our backs on a daily basis due to this obscure oddity within our economy. Not good. 

[gstc84]

We don't do that for wheat, oats, meat, seafood, carrots, beans or anything else. Just dairy. What a bizarre oddity. 

 

 

Poultry products (eggs, chickens and turkeys) are also supply managed.

[jonny]

Poultry products (eggs, chickens and turkeys) are also supply managed.

 

Right. Dairy is by far the largest, though. 

 

Why not grain? Beef? Pork? 

 

Why don't we supply manage restaurants? If we had restaurant quotas, we could provide predictable and stable incomes to restaurant workers! 

[jonny]

Why do we accept dairy price fixing and not t-shirt price fixing? If Nike, Adidas New Balance, Reebok and Under Armour got together and said the price of sneakers was now fixed at $199, there would be outrage. 

[rjag]

^ Yup, lots of double standards in supply management. Funny how all these 'progressive' politicians are so willing to protect a few thousand farmers while ignoring that these policies cost low income families an extra $350 (after tax money) a year in dairy costs. The hypocrisy is astounding

[Rob Randall]

There might be merit behind the idea of revisiting the concept of a dairy board but it sure as hell would be crazy to do it because Trump had a tantrum and ordered us to do it.