5846 replies to this topic

[jonny]

The potential scandal is the PM telling the AG not to pursue corruption charges against SNC.

[Victoria Watcher]

The potential scandal is the PM telling the AG not to pursue corruption charges against SNC.

 

oh for sure.  but that's a bit over the head of most voters.  all kinds of prosecutions and non-prosecutions are politically motivated even if not directed directly from politicians.

 

for example the entire jury process might be overhauled due to one non-conviction.

 

https://www.theglobe...ter-the-colten/

 

Government proposes changes to jury-selection process after the Colten Boushie case

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 09 February 2019 - 09:34 AM.

[spanky123]

The potential scandal is the PM telling the AG not to pursue corruption charges against SNC.

 

I think the political scandal is information about the PM telling the AG what to do leaking after the AG is demoted. What other shoe is going to drop?

[Mike K.]

According to these Canadian unions and organizations that oversaw the election, Venezuelan dictator Maduro was ...elected fair and square?

The group of six Canadian observers, among them representatives of Common Frontiers, Unifor, the Canadian Union of Postal Workers, the Ontario Secondary School Teachers’ Federation (OSSTF), the United Church of Canada and Rabble.ca, lauded Venezuela’s “strong and vibrant democracy,” however, in a report published by Common Frontiers after the May 2018 trip. United Steelworkers and a Toronto personal injury law firm, Carranza LLP, also provided “delegation support,” according to the report.

“We witnessed a transparent, secure, democratic and orderly electoral and voting process,” the document concludes. “Our delegation was impressed by the electoral process and felt confident that the results of the elections represent the will of the majority of Venezuelans who voted.”

- https://nationalpost...mended_articles

[Benezet]

According to these Canadian unions and organizations that oversaw the election, Venezuelan dictator Maduro was ...elected fair and square?

Well, that is what the delegation indicated after seeing it first-hand. What do other first-hand accounts say? Sincere question.

Tangent: It so happened I got a robocall on the day of a Canadian federal election, telling me my polling station had moved. It had not, of course, but someone had very deliberately tried to take away the one and only solid contribution I can make toward our democracy. If anyone thinks the bastards working for Harper at the time are better people than those working for Maduro, I will disagree with you. Sorry for the language there, but, it was my vote they were messing with. That day was not fair and square in my heart.

[Mike K.]

More from the above link:

“The notion that free and fair elections could possibly be taking place when you not only criminalize those who are on the opposition … but when you don’t have any allowance for expressions of freedom of speech, assembly, association and the like, simply is a non-sequitur,” said Irwin Cotler, a former Canadian justice minister who sat on the panel. “I think part of the problem with the labour groups who went down there is that they seem to be acting reflexively out of a political agenda rather than a human rights agenda. Out of a left-right agenda rather than a right-wrong approach.”

Alessandra Polga, a Venezuelan living in Canada who works on behalf of Venezuelan political prisoners, said she is concerned about “aggressive” left-wing groups advocating for Maduro’s regime in Canada.

[Victoria Watcher]

why is the canada post or other unions even involved?

[Benezet]

More from the above link:

Thanks, I did read the entire article. I’ll repeat my question: what do other first-hand accounts of the election say? Still being sincere here.

[PraiseKek]

According to these Canadian unions and organizations that oversaw the election, Venezuelan dictator Maduro was ...elected fair and square?

- https://nationalpost...mended_articles

It's democracy with only one party to vote for. Totally legit and also the end goal of these organizations. At least they're honest for once.

[North Shore]

Jody Wilson Raybould just resigned....major torpedo to the good ship Trudeau..wonder if it’s a fatal one?

[Mike K.]

Oh oh, that’s not good.

Andrew Scheer penned a letter published by the NP yesterday mocking the PM about his altruistic approach to politics, where honestly, integrity and transparency would bring a fresh approach to Canadian politics.

Oops.

[Victoria Watcher]

the cbc neil macdonald says who cares about bribes everyone does it.

https://www.cbc.ca/n...a-snc-1.5014939

[Mattjvd]

the cbc neil macdonald says who cares about bribes everyone does it.

https://www.cbc.ca/n...a-snc-1.5014939

He's not wrong, in the specific context of his article.

[spanky123]

the cbc neil macdonald says who cares about bribes everyone does it.

https://www.cbc.ca/n...a-snc-1.5014939

 

I am sure that the $750M the Libs have given the CBC has nothing to do with their "reporting".

[rjag]

remember this....?

 

https://youtu.be/gLX7F44Htsw

 

How prophetic was this!!!

[jonny]

I think the political scandal is information about the PM telling the AG what to do leaking after the AG is demoted. What other shoe is going to drop?

 

This is a massive scandal, in my eyes anyway, even if nothing quote-unqoute illegal occurred. We are merely at the tip of the iceberg on this.

 

My understanding is:

• SNC Lavalin lobbied the Liberals hard to insert an obscure new provision into the Criminal Code called “Remediation Agreements”, which by my understanding essentially amounts to paying restitution as punishment for crimes instead of doing hard time in prison. We’re talking about 80 meetings held between SNC lobbyists and officials in Ottawa.
• In the “Budget Implementation Act, 2018”, the Liberals passed legislation allowing Deferred Prosecution Agreements where these Remediation Agreements were inserted into the Criminal Code. That’s right, these same Liberals who railed against Stephen Harper’s omnibus bills, changed the Criminal Code in the 2018 Budget.
• Now, companies like SNC Lavalin can conceivably avoid costly trials that drag on years and years and all the costs, hassle and embarrassment that goes along with them. Away go the fraud charges and in come this court designated Deferred Prosecution Agreement where a fine is negotiated with a prosecutor and that’s that. No criminal convictions, no bad PR. No lengthy trial. Done and done.
• So these Deferred Prosecution Agreements have been the law for merely a few days, when the SNC Lavalin file comes across the desk of the Public Prosecutions Office requesting a Deferred Prosecution Agreement. Keep in mind this would be the first such agreement in Canadian history [how convenient]. The Director of Public Prosecutions, Kathleen Rousell decides, hey, I’m going to proceed with charges against SNC Lavalin.
• What happens next, we’re not entirely sure, but all of a sudden we have a new Attorney General and the former Attorney General is quickly out of Cabinet altogether and has retained legal counsel (from a retired Supreme Court Justice, no less). Safe to assume she has something to say…

 

In summary, the government is being asked to apply a rule change that it passed in a massive omnibus budget bill to the very corporation that lobbied for that rule change so that that corporation can avoid a lengthy trial on extremely serious fraud and bribery charges.

[spanky123]

The reality is that big companies pay fines, dump their execs and move on. What is the value of putting tens of thousands of people out of work and devaluing every pension plan across the country by bankrupting the company? I agree that it sucks and that execs should bear personal responsibility for their actions but what is the greater good?

[jonny]

The reality is that big companies pay fines, dump their execs and move on. What is the value of putting tens of thousands of people out of work and devaluing every pension plan across the country by bankrupting the company? I agree that it sucks and that execs should bear personal responsibility for their actions but what is the greater good?

 

This is such a bullshit argument. You should be ashamed of yourself for having no integrity whatsoever, as should Trudeau and Butts. 

 

What greater good? What's the greater good in letting a company with a massive track record of bribing public officials both in Canada and abroad off the hook. What message does that send? What's the point in having a criminal justice system at all? Let everybody off the hook. What's done is done. No sense in anybody wasting away in prison. To hell with the notion of responsibility. 

 

The greater good. Give me a break. We're talking about an engineering firm, for goodness sakes. These are highly skilled, extremely sought after professionals who are in demand across the globe. If SNC were to go under, these workers would be fine. Is the demand for engineering services going anywhere but up? Nope. IF SNC collapsed, and that's a big if, they'd be bought out or restructured or other firms would snap up the former SNC engineers and consultants. 

[spanky123]

^ So each of the 10K that will get fired are responsible for the actions of their execs? What about the retirees who may lose some or all of their pensions? 

[lanforod]

It's not like this hasn't happened before: Accenture exists because Enron had to get dismantled. Accenture is only part of what Enron was, but is a massive company. At some point, if the company is too corrupt to allow to continue, it needs to be taken down, and the people responsible jailed.

 

Should the PM or folks in the PMO be responsible as well here, they should also be jailed (not likely though; I'll settle for voted out in October).