39 replies to this topic

[Bingo]

Lost Franklin expedition ship found in the Arctic

 

Video    http://www.cbc.ca/ne...rctic-1.2760311

 

At this point, the searchers aren't sure if they've found HMS Erebus or HMS Terror. But sonar images from the waters of Victoria Strait, just off King William Island, clearly show wreckage of a ship on the ocean floor.

The wreckage was found on Sept. 7 using a remotely operated underwater vehicle recently acquired by Parks Canada

 

 

[amor de cosmos]

pretty cool

[AllseeingEye]

Very cool I will watch this with keen interest, thanks for posting Bingo....

[amor de cosmos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVY8LoM47xI
 

[HB]

The sad thing about this find is that Harper seems to think this is good for Canada and he speaks like we have found part of our history.

 

The solid fact is these ships went missing on their way to the Orient from England.

 

Canada did not even exist.

 

 

For Harper and all others who claim this is a great find for Canada they are totally wrong.

 

All it proves is that a British  ship went down in international waters and 150 years or so later people in this country found it. some people found it

Edited by History Buff, 25 September 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[Dimitrios]

A bit negative, eh HB? It's no secret that the exploration of 'British North America' (and New France, for that matter) was largely motivated by the hope of finding a shortcut to the Orient for trade purposes. Had a viable route been found along the Northwest Passage, presumably supply points would have no doubt turned into Canadian towns on the northern coast. Ok, this is pure philosophy because it didn't happen that way, but for example that was the story of the Dutch post in Cape Town, South Africa - originally just a supply point for the Dutch-East India company heading to India and Malaysia for trade - now (for better or worse), a highly cosmopolitan city with its own culture and history, and plenty of Dutch/Afrikaner flavour. Franklin and his crew are part of Canada's history just like Cartier, Champlain, Fraser, Thompson and Mackenzie - none of whom wandered around 'Canada' per se.

 

Don't worry about the Harper connection. Good for him for funding and supporting this venture. I can't stand him either.

[HB]

I suppose it is negative but not due to it being found more for the way it is being portrayed as a Canadian owned ship or that finding it has something to do with our

Sovereignty as a nation

[Mike K.]

This find is of huge importance to Canada.

Whether we like it or not we're a British colony. Finding a British ship in the arctic proves the British were traversing those waters prior to Denmark and Norway, both of which are contesting Canada's claim to the north. And don't forget there's also Russia and the US up there.

Finding this ship solidifies our claim that the British were out there well before other imperialists and as mentioned by geekthegreek had the climate been more hospitable townships and ports would have been built.

[tedward]

This find is of huge importance to Canada.

Whether we like it or not we're a British colony. Finding a British ship in the arctic proves the British were traversing those waters prior to Denmark and Norway, both of which are contesting Canada's claim to the north. And don't forget there's also Russia and the US up there.

Finding this ship solidifies our claim that the British were out there well before other imperialists and as mentioned by geekthegreek had the climate been more hospitable townships and ports would have been built.

 

 

1) The importance to our history is minor and only of interest now thanks to modern political desires to shore up our claim to Arctic resources.

 

2) We have not been a British Colony for over a century (except for Newfoundland).

 

3) No one was denying the claim that British ships sailed those waters. If anything the claims on Arctic resources must be made by first nations who were there long before morons got themselves and others killed on a fools errand.

[Benezet]

Whether we like it or not we're a British colony.

I hope you meant to say Canada was once a British colony (and formerly a series of colonies).

You might be interested in reading up on "transit passage" as it applies to the Northwest Passage. Canada perhaps has little or no claim to the waterways themselves.

[Mike K.]

Our sovereign is the British Queen. Every single Canadian has pledged an oath to that sovereign either through birth or through the Canadian citizenship process. Yes, that is despicable, but that's what being Canadian entitles us to.

 

1) The importance to our history is minor and only of interest now thanks to modern political desires to shore up our claim to Arctic resources.

 

 

Exactly. It is important now, more than ever.

[Benezet]

P.S. Perhaps you'd also be interested in looking up the definition of 'colony' while you are researching this topic.

[Mike K.]

I'm being facetious with the use of the word "colony," but the fact remains we are subjects of the Queen. Whatever descriptor is used for Canada doesn't absolve us of our duties relating to the British Empire and our sovereign.

 

So tying this all back, yes, that British vessel has a great deal of relevance to land claims being made by Canada in the north.

[amor de cosmos]

why would this not be a great find for canada? are the ancient celtic sites in ireland important or even relevant to irish history? or stonehenge? or anything that might be found in the ground in istanbul, which has been the capital city of 3 different empires in the last 10,000 years or so? I don't mean in a legal sense but say a cultural or historical one. I know we have some deal with the UK about old british ships, including the erebus & terror, that are in our waters but I forget the details.

[tedward]

Whatever descriptor is used for Canada doesn't absolve us of our duties relating to the British Empire and our sovereign.

 

So tying this all back, yes, that British vessel has a great deal of relevance to land claims being made by Canada in the north.

 

You really need to go back to school. We have no, "duties relating to the British Empire and our sovereign." We have nostalgia and a sense of history but those few who owe a duty to Her Majesty do so in right of her position as our head of state not some imperial obligation.

 

As for the support of "land claims" I would point out that sailing a ship through navigable waters helps with these not at all. In fact, sailing ships through navigable waters actually weakens our claims under maritime law.

 

why would this not be a great find for canada?

 

It is an interesting historical find for Canada for sure and part of our heritage. I would suggest that the recent find off Haida Gwaii of the oldest known human settlement in Canada is far more significant than the final resting place of one idiot and his victims. The Franklin Expedition was one of many such expeditions and in 50 years will be no more than footnote in history texts probably more for the attempts at national myth-building than anything to do with the total failure that marked the actual project.

[G-Man]

Might as well bulldoze L'Anse aux Meadows. They were Norse and Canada didn’t exist.

http://en.m.wikipedi...nse_aux_Meadows

[Mike K.]

You really need to go back to school. We have no, "duties relating to the British Empire and our sovereign." We have nostalgia and a sense of history but those few who owe a duty to Her Majesty do so in right of her position as our head of state not some imperial obligation.

 

Yup, you're right about that. I was in the wrong.

 

I had my history a little messed up but if the Queen, Canada's Queen, requires Canadians to act on their oath and protect her wherever she may be in the world, we will be obliged to do so.

 

Anyways what's beside the point. Finding the vessel is an important part of our heritage, regardless of the origins of that vessel. G-man makes a good point in that regard when referencing the Viking settlements out east.

[amor de cosmos]

fun fact: I thought Mt Erebus, the 2nd-highest volcano on Antarctica, was named after the primordial greek god but it's actually named after the HMS Erebus, after James Ross used it & the Terror on an expedition down there. There's also a Mt Terror. (that's the same Ross that the Ross ice shelf is named after)

[HB]

1) The importance to our history is minor and only of interest now thanks to modern political desires to shore up our claim to Arctic resources.

 

2) We have not been a British Colony for over a century (except for Newfoundland).

 

3) No one was denying the claim that British ships sailed those waters. If anything the claims on Arctic resources must be made by first nations who were there long before morons got themselves and others killed on a fools errand.

 

 

Thank you

[HB]

I hope you meant to say Canada was once a British colony (and formerly a series of colonies).

You might be interested in reading up on "transit passage" as it applies to the Northwest Passage. Canada perhaps has little or no claim to the waterways themselves.

And Thank You too

 

 

The reason I posted that comment was because Harper and other Officials are acting in a manner which hints that these ships are Canadian or Canada has some claim to them and or the waters they were found in.

 

How can it be when Canada didnt exiist for another 2 decades or so and the Arctic Islands not for many many more