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Franklin's ship found


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#21 amor de cosmos

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 01:43 PM

I guess I could add that it inspired a load of artworks. It would be very difficult to have a complete understanding of certain artists' work, including Canadian artists, without learning about the Franklin expedition or Northwest Passage exploration in general. That would be things like the Stan Rogers song above, or various paintings easily found on google images. So it's culturally important from that point of view as well. There's also the Inuit oral tradition which was used recently to find the wreck. The Inuit are Canadian too afaik.
 
more details about that deal with the UK
 

Canada promised Britain in a 1997 agreement that it would refrain from disturbing or bringing to the surface any human remains discovered on the wreck or in the vicinity, except if they need to be removed to conduct archaeological work.

*snip*

Gold is one potential find Canada and Britain have already anticipated. The 1997 deal says London will assign Canada ownership of everything recovered except for gold and artifacts deemed important to the Royal Navy. Should gold be discovered, it will be split between London and Ottawa once coins deemed to be privately owned or claimed by third parties are deducted from the haul.

Canada also promised Britain that it wouldn’t rush excavation of the shipwreck for publicity.

http://www.theglobea...rticle20512863/

#22 HB

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 01:51 PM

Actually the Inuvialuit and or Inuit were not Canadian and they only became so when the Canadian Government annexed all their  lands just like they did with first nations and other indians


Edited by History Buff, 26 September 2014 - 01:57 PM.


#23 HB

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 01:54 PM

Their Oral history says that the Inuvialuit or Inuit not sure which lived on board the stricken ships for up to 2 years before they sunk.

So its not like anyone listened to them and the Canadian Government has taken credit for finding the ship with a little side note that " Oh Ya an Eskimo or 2 once said something about knowing the approx location of the ship or ships.


Edited by History Buff, 26 September 2014 - 01:57 PM.


#24 amor de cosmos

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 02:16 PM

this would seem to contradict what you're saying
 

Louie Kamookak, a historian in Gjoa Haven, the community closest to the discovery, has spent more than 30 years interviewing elders to collect the stories passed down about the Franklin expedition.

He sat down with Parks Canada in 2008 before the current search began and provided them with information as to where the ships would likely be found.

"It's proving the Inuit oral history is very strong," he said.

The two ships of the Franklin expedition — HMS Erebus and HMS Terror — and their crews disappeared during an ill-fated search for the Northwest Passage in 1846.

Inuit oral tradition said the two ships appeared on the northwest side of King William Island, said Kamookak. One was crushed in ice and the other drifted further south.

"For us Inuit it means that oral history is very strong in knowledge, not only for searching for Franklin's ships but also for environment and other issues," Kamookak said.

Archeologist Dr. Doug Stenton, director of heritage for the Government of Nunavut, was aboard the vessel that made the discovery on Sunday. He says the team may not have found the ship 11 metres underwater without Inuit knowledge.

"It's very satisfying to see that testimony of Inuit who shared their knowledge of what happened to the wreck has been validated quite clearly," he said.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ookak-1.2761362

I think I remember seeing something (also probably on CBC) about the Inuit considering telling the truth to be a life-&-death thing. When lives are at stake, say involving where food or thin ice is, you just don't lie or embellish your story.

(btw what's a nunavut anyway?)

re: canada's claim on the northwest passage maybe this helps

It’s not clear whether Harper is really talking about sovereignty in the strict sense of the term when discussing Franklin’s significance to Canada. “We use the word sovereignty loose and fast,” says Robert Huebert, an associate political science professor at the University of Calgary. “Everybody does. Really what they’re saying is this is significant for Canadian nationalism.” He compared it to the way Americans have embraced the bloody Battle of the Alamo in 1836 as part of their national story even though Texas was not yet a member of the union. For Canada, then, Franklin has become a symbol of courage and the spirit of exploration in a particularly harsh land. It hardly matters that he was British. “It’s significant for our national story and the way the North was explored,” Huebert says.

The effort—and the discovery—couldn’t have come at a more opportune time. Though largely overshadowed by the Franklin hunt, two Canadian icebreakers spent the summer further north, scouring the Arctic seabed as part of an effort to lay claim to the region and its valuable resources. Ottawa has already made a preliminary submission to a United Nations commission to extend Canada’s reach as far as the North Pole—a position that is being challenged by Russia, among others. Now, amid the sudden deterioration of relations between Russia and the West over the Ukraine crisis, all that territorial jockeying has taken on increased significance. “The bottom line is the Ukraine crisis has sharpened our realization of what the Russians are doing with regards to militarizing the Arctic,” says Huebert. “It’s a new geopolitical reality.”

http://www.macleans....ery-was-solved/

I had a similar thought to this after seeing this archaeologist on the 5th estate not too long ago:



"As far as I'm concerned, a greater and much older archeological mystery is the presence of the ancient Norse from Greenland in Nunavut many, many, many centuries before the Franklin ship disappearance.

"For my money, of special interest is the groundbreaking work of Dr. Patricia Sutherland on the Norse sites near Kimmirut, but the government in power has chosen to discredit her — fire her, indeed — and ensure that that research doesn't go ahead.


Edited by amor de cosmos, 26 September 2014 - 02:29 PM.

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#25 HB

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 02:26 PM

Ill try to find the source of the story and if I can find the story Ill put it here.



#26 tedward

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:15 AM

Might as well bulldoze L'Anse aux Meadows. They were Norse and Canada didn’t exist.

 

That makes no sense as a comparison. L'Anse aux Meadows is a significant historical site unique in North America. The Franklin expedition was simply one of many failed expeditions.

It makes a great tragic story but there was nothing SIGNIFICANT about it.


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#27 amor de cosmos

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 11:10 AM

looks like it was the erebus

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...rebus-1.2784268



#28 amor de cosmos

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 08:28 AM

The excitement of the Franklin saga may make us feel more emotionally engaged with our northern territories

The recent discovery of the resting place of one of the two ships involved in the doomed Franklin Expedition of 1845 has garnered a huge amount of media attention and a great deal of excitement from historians, explorers, politicians and the general public alike. The question is: why?

In addition to the media furor across the globe, even Prime Minister Harper has made no secret of his enthusiasm for the hunt for Franklin’s lost ships, the federal government has made substantial financial contributions to the search efforts which have been ongoing each summer since 2008.

So, what makes this project so important?



Kate Humble is the interpretive co-ordinator at the Maritime Museum of B.C. The Maritime Museum will be running a regular column on historical and maritime topics.

http://www.vicnews.c.../277825971.html

#29 AllseeingEye

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 09:56 AM

And Thank You too

 

 

The reason I posted that comment was because Harper and other Officials are acting in a manner which hints that these ships are Canadian or Canada has some claim to them and or the waters they were found in.

 

How can it be when Canada didnt exiist for another 2 decades or so and the Arctic Islands not for many many more

Can you provide examples or a link? Anyone with even a modicum and barest elementary knowledge of our history would (or should) know these were British ships. I find it hard to believe the PM or anyone on his staff believes or even hints that "......these ships are Canadian".



#30 HB

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 12:16 PM

I said they were acting in a manner that HINTs at it .They dont come out and say it but it felt like he was saying so.

Someone who doesnt know our history or a young person/student may ,, upon hearing the announcement may think that these were canadian ships or had a link to Canada even though the country did not exists at the time of the sinking



#31 Mike K.

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 08:40 AM

I dunno, it's drilled into kids quite often that this was a British expedition. But even if Canada did not exist as a country it was virtually settled from coast to coast. What we referred to the land mass and it's political situation back then is irrelevant, IMO.

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#32 HB

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 02:20 PM

Ok i will agree to disagree

#33 Bingo

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 12:28 PM

Divers beneath the Arctic sea ice offered a live video tour at the wreck of the Franklin Expedition's HMS Erebus today.

Holes had been cut through the ice, which is now about two metres deep, to give Royal Canadian Navy divers and Parks Canada underwater archeologists a chance to continue exploration of the 19th-century wreck discovered late last summer in the Queen Maud Gulf off Nunavut.Underwater archeologists anticipated correctly that spring diving conditions would create good viewing opportunities for the wreck, which was found in water about 11 metres deep.

The amount of ice cover eliminates wave action, and any particulate in the water will have settled down to the sea floor, creating ideal conditions for recording details of the ship.

"It's almost like diving in an aquarium," Harris, a senior underwater archeologist for Parks Canada, said earlier this month.Underwater archeologists, who will be using a new high-tech, 3-D laser scanning tool, want to create a thorough recording of the wreck before delving more deeply within it.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...3035545?cmp=rss

 

 



#34 Bingo

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 04:03 PM

Inuit have long shared tales of cannibalism on Sir John Franklin's last expedition to the Arctic, and now researchers say they have found evidence to back up those stories.

Researchers from the University of Alberta and  the U.K. public body Historic England looked at the remains from 36 cracked bones found on King William Island, in what is now Nunavut. The bones show signs of breakage and polishing consistent with heating in water to facilitate marrow extraction, as well as evidence of having been cut into with a sharp object.
"With the cut marks we've shown that the cannibalism took place," says Simon Mays, a member of the excavation and analysis team at Historic England.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...3174502?cmp=rss

 



#35 tedward

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 08:26 AM

And to no ones surprise the Harper Government is airing commercials that are barely concealed election ads based on the search for this ship.

Maybe the script could be rewritten to more accurately reflect reality:

 

 

Announcer: In 1845, a moron led a pointless expedition to discover what did not exist at the time.

 

 

First Nations Storyteller: Oh yes, we knew they were f#@$*d. They seemed really eager to start eating each other. We thought it was some sort of religious tradition.


Announcer: In 2015 scientific research on this doomed expedition was hijacked by the worst Prime Minister in Canadian history.

 

PM Harper: I showed up to do a photo op, it's kinda my thing. I once interrupted fire fighters in BC for over an hour so I could spend five minutes looking concnerned and trying to get them to sing Oh, Canada. I guess their parched, smoke-filled throats were not really ready to sing so I just sort of moved on...

 

etc.


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#36 amor de cosmos

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 11:14 AM

HMS Terror, one of Sir John Franklin's two ships lost in the doomed 1845 Franklin Expedition, has been found in a Nunavut bay, according to the Guardian.

In an exclusive report, the newspaper says that the ship, which was abandoned in sea ice in 1848 during a failed attempt to sail through the Northwest Passage, was found "in pristine condition" in Nunavut's Terror Bay, north of where the wreck of HMS Erebus — the expedition's flagship — was found in 2014.

According to the Guardian, the crew of the Arctic Research Foundation's Martin Bergmann research vessel found the shipwreck, with all three masts standing and almost all hatches closed, on Sept. 3.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...found-1.3758400

#37 Bingo

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 04:56 AM

Ship was found "in pristine condition" 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...error-1.3760280

 



#38 Bingo

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 05:06 AM

Come out to listen to four amazing speakers talk about their relationship with the finding of

HMS Erebus, one of Franklin's long lost ships, at this once-in-a-lifetime event!

 

Thursday, October 13, 2016 - Contact Maritime Museum at 250-385-4222 for tickets

 

The four participants will include:

  • Paul Watson: Pulitzer Prize Winning Photojournalist, who was aboard the Sir Wilfrid Laurier when HMS Erebus was located will be hosting the event.
  • Ryan Harris: Senior Parks Canada Underwater Archaeologist and lead diver for the Franklin Expedition search party.
  • Bill Noon: captain of the Canadian Coast Guard Icebreaker Sir Wilfrid Laurier.
  • David Woodman: author of “Unravelling the Franklin Mystery” and “Strangers Among Us.”

More: http://mmbc.bc.ca/ev...-of-hms-erebus/

 


Edited by Bingo, 12 October 2016 - 05:09 AM.


#39 amor de cosmos

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 06:07 AM

Canada and the Inuit are now officially co-owners of the two long-lost ships from the Franklin expedition.

The deeds to HMS Erebus and HMS Terror, along with all their remaining contents, were signed over to Canada and the Inuit Heritage Trust after nearly two years of negotiations with the British government over which artifacts Britain would retain.

“This is a really extraordinary announcement,” Environment Minister Catherine McKenna said during Thursday’s signing ceremony with British High Commissioner Susan le Jeune D’Allegeershecque.

Britain retains ownership of 65 artifacts already discovered — both on land prior to the discovery of either shipwreck, as well as onboard Erebus itself after it was found in September 2014.

https://www.nanaimob...o-canada-inuit/

#40 Nparker

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 11:34 AM

Should we really be naming a new Coast Guard vessel after someone with such a suspicious past? I mean cannibalism? Eating boots!

In 1819, Franklin was chosen to lead an expedition overland from Hudson Bay to chart the north coast of Canada eastwards from the mouth of the Coppermine River. On his 1819 expedition, Franklin fell into the Hayes River at Robinson Falls and was rescued by a member of his expedition about 90 metres (98 yd) downstream. Between 1819 and 1822, he lost 11 of the 20 men in his party. Most died of starvation, but there were also at least one murder and suggestions of cannibalism. The survivors were forced to eat lichen and even attempted to eat their own leather boots. This gained Franklin the nickname of "the man who ate his boots"...In 1854, the Scottish explorer John Rae, while surveying the Boothia Peninsula for the Hudson's Bay Company, discovered the true fate of the Franklin party from talking to Inuit hunters. He was told both ships had become icebound, and the men had tried to reach safety on foot but had succumbed to cold, and some had resorted to cannibalism...


https://en.wikipedia...i/John_Franklin

Perhaps the CG could choose something less controversial like "The Pacific Northwest District Seagoing Vessel"



 



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