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#21 pherthyl

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 08:52 AM

So, the markets took a pretty serious dive last week - and then rebounded pretty solidly this week so far. Anyone panic and sell low (and want to admit it)? Anyone make a bucket shorting? Anyone take a buying opportunity?

 

I wish I had bought (of course), and thought about it but didn't have free cash. Lots of bargains were around; many still are.

 

Hard to tell if it's worth it.  Do you keep cash around sitting idle waiting for a slump?   Then you would have to subtract the opportunity costs of that from any gains you made by hitting a dip in the market.   Sometimes there just isn't a slump and you've lost a lot by waiting.  



#22 dasmo

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:16 AM

There was ample warning of a slump. When everyone is talking about the slump coming in the dreaded October coupled with the talk of a correction due to all time highs with the start of the volatility... it's still a risk to pull out but that's why you just take some out. For me it wasn't much, just enough to buy some opportunities. I talked to someone a few weeks back who had pulled everything out into cash. They were a paranoid financial adviser... Or maybe they are right. They did inspire me to take some profits out though...

#23 dasmo

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 08:51 AM

Bought some zillow yesterday and now looking to buy DDD...

#24 dasmo

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:34 PM

Hey Concorde, you say you are a day trader. I'm curious what that's like and how do you actually make money doing that. I'm a stock picker and do pretty good but am long and just maintain. the shortest game I played was RIM which I bought at 7ish and sold at 17ish. Everything else I tend to hold a lot longer. How do you come upon that kind of action on a daily basis?

#25 spanky123

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:41 PM

Bought some zillow yesterday and now looking to buy DDD...

 

That is not investing, that is gambling!



#26 dasmo

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:47 PM

3-D printing especially SLS of metal is the future of manufacturing. Hardly gambling.... Online Realestate sales, mortgages and info is also the future... Zillow is up 15% and DDD is down 5% since I bought... DDD is a longer play though. If zillow doubles I'll take half out.

#27 Mike K.

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 03:50 PM

Day trading sure isn't what it used to be. Bots now run the show and that has taken virtually all of the profit making slack out of the equation.

Someone who moves 300 shares of Ford around once or twice in a day isn't a day trader. Someone who moves 30,000 through a trading platform and skims 3 cents profit on a short is.

I'm not saying Concorde is or isn't a day trader but a "daytrader" and someone who sits in front of their computer making a few moves during a day are two completely different things despite the term being applied to both types of traders interchangeably.

The key to daytrading is buying power (I.e. you get access to money that's not yours in order to execute massive trades). If you don't have it you won't have enough to make a living wage after your fees are factored in, unless you're moving millions of dollars of your own money around in which case you can really pull in some serious cash.

We've got a day trader on VV. I wonder if he'll put his two cents in on this topic?

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#28 pherthyl

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 03:58 PM

3-D printing especially SLS of metal is the future of manufacturing. Hardly gambling.... Online Realestate sales, mortgages and info is also the future... Zillow is up 15% and DDD is down 5% since I bought... DDD is a longer play though. If zillow doubles I'll take half out.

 

Every gambler thinks they have a system.  

 

You think the market doesn't understand that 3D printing is the future?  Or the online real estate info has potential?  



#29 dasmo

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 04:49 PM

 I was curious to hear from other investors not necessarily debate if investing is gambling or not. However, In reference to that notion,  I have done very well with my "system". Especially after I got rid of the financial adviser and sold all mutual funds and set off 100% on my own in equities.  "The market" isn't a magic oracle. Shoot those computers react to twitter feeds... If you have invested long enough you realize that all those advisers and analysts are just blowing hot air. One says one thing the other says another... The market told me my Apple investment was a bad idea for a decade... 

 

This isn't like a "system" of playing lottery numbers... I've never even played the lottery...


Edited by dasmo, 19 November 2014 - 04:52 PM.


#30 pherthyl

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 05:30 PM

 I was curious to hear from other investors not necessarily debate if investing is gambling or not. However, In reference to that notion,  I have done very well with my "system". Especially after I got rid of the financial adviser and sold all mutual funds and set off 100% on my own in equities.  "The market" isn't a magic oracle. Shoot those computers react to twitter feeds... If you have invested long enough you realize that all those advisers and analysts are just blowing hot air. One says one thing the other says another... The market told me my Apple investment was a bad idea for a decade... 

 

This isn't like a "system" of playing lottery numbers... I've never even played the lottery...

 

The comparison to gambling was about stock picking, not investing in general.

 

As for doing very well, everyone has done very well in the last several years.   When you can hold up 10 years of significantly above market returns then you can talk about having made smart investments.  

 

You say the advisors are just blowing hot air, but in fact they are doing exactly the same thing as you (except they can dedicate far more time to the research).  The realization that advisors are pretty useless should be a clue that that approach isn't likely to get you ahead of the game.   You can beat the market if you have exclusive access to information, otherwise it is very unlikely.   Also a big bet on one company (Apple) can get you ahead for a long time, but can just as easily destroy your return for years if it goes the other way.


Edited by pherthyl, 19 November 2014 - 05:38 PM.


#31 spanky123

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 05:40 PM

That is not investing, that is gambling!

 

I was suggesting that buying companies which are not profitable and/or which are trading at huge speculative margins is a high risk bet. There are not usually sound financial models which can be applied to value the companies. Some people make a lot of money on spec and others lose their shirts. If you are playing with extra change and have a longer investment time horizon then go for it.



#32 concorde

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 06:10 PM

Hey Concorde, you say you are a day trader. I'm curious what that's like and how do you actually make money doing that. I'm a stock picker and do pretty good but am long and just maintain. the shortest game I played was RIM which I bought at 7ish and sold at 17ish. Everything else I tend to hold a lot longer. How do you come upon that kind of action on a daily basis?

Yes, I make very good money doing that, but you have to have the time and watch the markets

 

I've played the risky stocks and the more solid fortune 500 types and I favor the later 

 

If you are asking me if I have doubled my money in a single day trade, no sorry.  I tend to pick stuff where I can make say 50 cents per share in a day on a $50-75 stock, but I am also buying 10,000-20,000 shares.  Do I make $10,000 a day, yes somedays, but sometimes I've lost $40,000 in an hour.

 

I have 2 rules - never play with anyone elses money (ie borrowed money) and always be prepared to lose everything you invest



#33 dasmo

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 06:50 PM

I was suggesting that buying companies which are not profitable and/or which are trading at huge speculative margins is a high risk bet. There are not usually sound financial models which can be applied to value the companies. Some people make a lot of money on spec and others lose their shirts. If you are playing with extra change and have a longer investment time horizon then go for it.


I can go with that. Those two picks I would classify as more speculative for those reasons. Another thing you learn is it's not always about the fundamentals. Look at Amazon! Of which I do not own.... I have my safe bets in the mix...

#34 spanky123

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 07:05 PM

I can go with that. Those two picks I would classify as more speculative for those reasons. Another thing you learn is it's not always about the fundamentals. Look at Amazon! Of which I do not own.... I have my safe bets in the mix...


My suggestion is that if you like a sector then diversify by picking a few stocks in that sector rather than investing only in one. A good company is not always a good public company and there are lots of factors beyond what the average retail investor can see or measure which impact outcome.

#35 dasmo

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 07:17 PM

True but I like to buy stuff I know about and that's on sale. Stratasys is the other player but is not and quite the same slump from peak. I also like the metal technologies that 3D systems has. This is where the real potential is. Stratasys is just bigger and more popular because they bought makerbot. Consumer 3D printing is only a buzz right now. I don't see the masses all becoming Industrial Designers any time soon...

#36 Szeven

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 08:32 PM

I'm not sure if Mike was specifically referring to me, but I do day trade for a living. A big part of my job now is also managing retained assets.  Ive done it for 10 years now and yes the game has changed tons. Luckily human nature does not change and liquidity isnt always perfect, so there are oppourtunities even in this brutal trending no volume market. 


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#37 Sparky

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 12:22 AM

The last stock purchase that made any substantial gains for me was Wardair.



#38 Bingo

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 05:19 PM

The last stock purchase that made any substantial gains for me was Wardair.

 

For me it was the "Free" BCRIC (brick) shares of 1979 ...as I cashed them right away.  :)

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#39 dasmo

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 05:31 PM

Sounds a little like the Otto Fund... Which you won't catch me investing in....

#40 Wayne

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 06:41 PM

Still waiting for Bre-X to bounce back.


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