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#441 Midnightly

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 04:28 AM

why do we even need to take away the parking to offer up a space for food trucks? leave the parking and have one day a week that food trucks are allowed down there like they do at the esquimalt lagoon, it's worked great for years in the summer, they don't make any changes to the road they just set up the trucks for a window of time 1 day a week... i really don't understand the need for picnic tables not with how windy it gets down there.. sure you can add a few benches..

 

i have no problems with this area being used as a flex space.. have food trucks, try and host a festival or two.. nothing is stopping that from happening we don't need to make a whole bunch of changes to make the area welcoming

 

then they can do what they told us they were going to do before they started all this mess... return it back to how it was..


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#442 Nparker

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 06:24 AM

 

...we don't need to make a whole bunch of changes to make the area welcoming...

Well that wouldn't be very woke now would it?



#443 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 06:43 AM

Editorial: Clover Point should be open to all

 

That is, apparently, not good enough for the people who run Victoria. They want to limit vehicular access in the belief that Clover Point should be for people, not cars — as though the people who sit in those cars don’t exist, or at least don’t count as much as the younger, healthier, less-inconvenient people in the city’s vision of an urban utopia.

 

It’s a bizarre way of thinking, and it is insultingly dismissive of a large proportion of the population.

_______________________________

 

And no, Clover Point has never been a parking lot. A parking lot is a place where you leave your vehicle while doing other things. Clover Point, as traditionally used, is a viewpoint for those who come by car because, without vehicles, their access to the park would be impossible.

_______________________________

 

Again, the timing is suspect. The city claims that it wants a quick decision so changes can be made as Clover Point is rebuilt after the work needed by the sewage treatment project.

 

Beware any long-term decisions made under an artificial deadline. The city had two years to tell us about this, yet left it until the last minute. Why?

 

Every week, it seems, Victoria is trying to antagonize people who have lived here for years, as though impatient to clear out the older, the infirm and others whose lives don’t fit neatly within its vision — an odd choice for a city with one of the highest proportions of seniors in Canada.

 

It’s great to encourage cycling, walking and healthier alternatives — but it’s also great to do so in a way that doesn’t create winners by turning other people into losers.

 

https://www.timescol...-all-1.24286206


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 February 2021 - 06:44 AM.

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#444 rjag

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 08:19 AM

So whats next? King George Terrace? Mt Tolmie? Mt Doug? Willows Beach? 

 

Its amazing that we give so much power to about 30 odd vocal intolerant activists and we have to constantly defend status quo concepts. The same group cross pollinate BHP, Bike coalition, placemaking, Greens, Eco-socialists etc. Its the same 20-30 people and to listen to them, they are arrogant, dismissive and completely biased in their perspectives. 

 

Everything has to be viewed through an anti-car lens. Heck they even want to remove parking in front of a very small section by Capital Iron because some Zealot said he wanted to walk the 20 feet to nowhere and Jeremy Loveday was all over it saying he would alert engineering. The :badpc: sidewalk :badpc: goes :badpc: nowhere.

 

 

1908 Store St - Google Maps But Jeremy is all over it!!! So he responds to his fanbase while ignoring a 28,000 signature petition...


Edited by rjag, 24 February 2021 - 08:19 AM.

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#445 marks_28

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 12:07 PM

^Huh? What if someone parked just north of there, and wanted to walk to Capital Iron?



#446 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 12:12 PM

isn't it just a narrow sidewalk?

 

anyway, cross the street on foot.  sometimes you have to do that.  we already know they can walk.  because they have parked away from the store.  and they walk to and from their car at home too.

 

if that does not suit them then park somewhere else.  or shop somewhere else.

 

i - and 7000 others - would like to park at the arena too and not have to cross any streets to get to it.  but we have to.  lump it.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 February 2021 - 12:16 PM.

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#447 marks_28

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 12:24 PM

Wait, I'm confused. I thought we were all pro accessibility, you know like at Clover Point, leave the parking because some people aren't able to walk down to the point from Dallas Road? Shouldn't that same principle apply here? Make sure someone is able to navigate their walker along the sidewalk as they visit a local business? Maybe Stephen Andrew will show up on the news with his wheelchair again and try to navigate that sidewalk?

 

Or is the real issue here people just don't like to lose parking, regardless of who it will affect?



#448 rjag

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 12:52 PM

^Huh? What if someone parked just north of there, and wanted to walk to Capital Iron?

 

What do the people that park here where theres no sidewalk, only grass then 2 large driveways do?

 

2031 Store St - Google Maps

 

Google Maps



#449 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 12:58 PM

Wait, I'm confused. I thought we were all pro accessibility, you know like at Clover Point, leave the parking because some people aren't able to walk down to the point from Dallas Road? Shouldn't that same principle apply here? 

 

it can't apply in every square foot of the city.   how does your theoretical person-with-the-walker-that-must-park-north-of-capital-iron-on-that-side watch buskers in the lower causeway?  or walk the beach at willows?  or get to the water at goldstream?


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 February 2021 - 12:58 PM.


#450 rjag

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:00 PM

Wait, I'm confused. I thought we were all pro accessibility, you know like at Clover Point, leave the parking because some people aren't able to walk down to the point from Dallas Road? Shouldn't that same principle apply here? Make sure someone is able to navigate their walker along the sidewalk as they visit a local business? Maybe Stephen Andrew will show up on the news with his wheelchair again and try to navigate that sidewalk?

 

Or is the real issue here people just don't like to lose parking, regardless of who it will affect?

 

That stretch of parking has never been a problem, however you miss the point of my original post, which was the speed of response from Loveday to one of the anti-car crowd that he'd get right on it and alert engineering...meanwhile a 29,000 petition and there's silence. 

 

Further you also miss the point around Clover Point which is that its a lookout that was used 24x7 365 days a year to watch storms, the scenery, the boats etc...that the weather there makes it ideal to sit in your car for 10-20 minutes and drink a coffee or whatever and then you move on. No different than Mt Tolmie or King George Terrace. 

 

The CRD indicated that the plan was to restore it and CoV council approved that plan 2 years ago and now, just like SJA, the real plan surfaces and to hell with anyone that doesn't ride a bike or walk down there....they can go somewhere else...maybe BHP... oh wait.... 


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#451 marks_28

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:04 PM

What do the people that park here where theres no sidewalk, only grass then 2 large driveways do?

 

2031 Store St - Google Maps

 

Google Maps

 

Good point. Maybe you should pass this note along to Jeremy ;)



#452 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:06 PM

why do we even need to take away the parking to offer up a space for food trucks? leave the parking and have one day a week that food trucks are allowed down there like they do at the esquimalt lagoon, it's worked great for years in the summer, they don't make any changes to the road they just set up the trucks for a window of time 1 day a week...

 

that's true.  they would like a spot that's flat and level but otherwise the same space can be car parking.  

 

the fascination with food trucks is odd anyway.  people would FLIP if an ice cream stand bar opened anywhere adjacent to or in the park but food trucks they are OK with on the point?

 

but i'm actually OK with food trucks.  these would be my favourites for clover point:

 

  • mcdonalds
  • wendys
  • tim hortons
  • kfc
  • burger king

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Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 February 2021 - 01:14 PM.

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#453 rjag

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:16 PM

Good point. Maybe you should pass this note along to Jeremy ;)

 

I did....silence...


Edited by rjag, 24 February 2021 - 01:16 PM.


#454 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 01:49 PM

 

https://twitter.com/Adam_Stirling


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#455 rjag

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Posted 24 February 2021 - 02:04 PM

Capital Daily on Twitter: "What do you want to see happen at Clover Point? #yyj" / Twitter

 

Twitter poll folks! I bet Ben will claim its scientific if it falls in his favor 



#456 FogPub

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 01:18 AM

^ Twitter poll only any good if one does twitter, so, built-in bias there.


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#457 rmpeers

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 08:22 AM

Why are we still talking about Clover Point ffs?? It's fine and there is no shortage of other things that actually do need fixing.
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#458 Moderation

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 12:50 PM

A major works project is being completed.

 

A review of present and future use of the area  when the final surface rehabilitation is to be completed makes sense. It may even save money long term.



#459 spanky123

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 12:52 PM

A major works project is being completed.

 

A review of present and future use of the area  when the final surface rehabilitation is to be completed makes sense. It may even save money long term.

 

True but the implication seems to be that we can save money because we can use the contractors that are already working on the site. That would require a non-tendered contract with the contractor knowing that their bid would not be subject to any competition. Rarely does that save any money!


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#460 spanky123

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Posted 25 February 2021 - 12:54 PM

Sounds like council agreed to limit parking to that in proposal B with 8 regular parking spots and 4 accessible spots at the base of Clover Point. I was surprised how SA voted on some of the proposed amendments to limit costs.



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